Ep. 46 - Friends of Fives

Introduction and Guest Introductions

[00:00:00] Josiah: So Cody. 

[00:00:02] Cody: Yeah, 

[00:00:02] Josiah: no other Cody. Oh, so 

[00:00:05] what's it like to be friends with Cody? 

[00:00:08] Cody Ray: Well, that's a good question. 

[00:00:53] So we've got a couple of guests. On the show today. We've got. Cody Ray. Hey there and we've got Brandon. What's up. 

Discussing Friendships with a Five

[00:01:04] Cody Ray: And so we had this conversation that Cody and I had this conversation on what it's like to have friends as a five, how we approach friendships. Uh, how we can neglect friendships most of the time. 

[00:01:17] Cody: Yeah. 

[00:01:18] Josiah: And, uh, and so then we thought it'd be fun to bring on a couple of people who have known us a really long time, who aren't fives to talk about what it's like to be friends with the five. Yeah. 

[00:01:29] Cody: It's going to be fun. 

[00:01:32] Josiah: Uh, so let's start with Brandon. 

Brandon and Cody's High School Memories

[00:01:35] Josiah: Brandon you and I. Have known each other. Since high school. 

[00:01:40] Brandon: Yeah. Like 20 years, a little over 20 years. It 

[00:01:44] Josiah: has been that long. 

[00:01:45] Brandon: Cause it's, we're about to do our 20 year reunion. Which if you don't go will be absolutely horrible. 

[00:01:53] Josiah: I'm the life of the party. Is that what you're saying? 

[00:01:55] You're the life of my 

[00:01:55] Brandon: party. 

[00:01:58] Very much. 

[00:02:00] I'll deal with very many of the people we went to high school with, it felt so romantic. 

[00:02:06] It should be on a card somewhere. The life of my party. 

[00:02:12] Josiah: so Brandon, you are a seven. Yeah, wing eight. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Seven through and through man. Yes. Yep. What an interesting. Personality for you to be friends with. Right, right. Well, he didn't know I was a seven when we met. So that's how I, that's how I was suckered him in. No, no seven suckers, 

[00:02:32] Cody: a five and any. 

[00:02:34] Brandon: It's definitely the other way around. Yeah, 

[00:02:37] Cody: for sure. 

[00:02:38] Yeah. 

[00:02:39] Josiah: All right. 

Cody Ray's Friendship Journey

[00:02:39] Josiah: And we've also got Cody Ray, welcome to the podcast. Thanks 

[00:02:43] RODECaster Pro II Main Multitrack: for having me. And how long have you known Cody? 

[00:02:46] Cody Ray: Probably 13 ish years 

[00:02:48] RODECaster Pro II Main Multitrack: now. 

[00:02:49] Cody Ray: Yeah. Sometime like. Yeah. I'm a two. You're too. Yeah. And I think. Um, I'm not entirely sure how the wing. Ideas work and I'd have to pull my, uh, Report or whatever up to look at it. 

[00:03:02] But. I think six is where I go. Like, I, I know that I've also kind of like lived as a six. Like when I'm unhealthy. 

[00:03:10] Cody: thought you were a six for a long time. Yeah. I thought that was a six for a long time. And then yeah, the more you've gotten to know yourself. In your thirties. Yeah. Very much 

[00:03:19] Brandon: too. 

[00:03:20] Cody: Yeah. 

Deep Conversations and Self-Discovery

[00:03:20] Brandon: Is that like you guys obviously study up on this a lot more, do you think. Just getting to know yourself is. Like how you kind of really figure out. That part, because the Enneagram is like, you 

[00:03:31] can identify with characteristics of a lot of things, but you really have to know yourself well enough to, 

[00:03:36] Cody: yeah, I would 

[00:03:36] Brandon: assume 

[00:03:37] Cody: that's how the first nine people got there. How's that you've got a good point. 

[00:03:42] Yeah. Um, Yeah. I don't know. I think, yeah. Cause I don't think that you're, I don't think you're type really for it's for the Enneagram, your type doesn't change. Really. Like you, you find it, you find the one, like. When you keep distilling yourself down. That's the part. Yes. And that's a good way to put it. 

[00:03:58] This is, this is actually the core of who I am. This is me. 

[00:04:00] Brandon: The distilling part was actually what com. You put it better, but that's the word? I was kind of referring to is like, It's almost hard to do when you're young, because you don't really know yourself well enough, right? 

[00:04:08] Cody: Yeah, cause I thought it was a one through most of my religious years. And I was definitely not a one. All religious people are ones really. If you guys. Yeah. 

[00:04:20]

[00:04:20] Cody Ray: I mean, the loyalist idea that that was very much brought on by my religious oh. Oh, okay. Sure, sure, 

[00:04:25] Cody: sure. Yeah. You know, That's yeah, I'd say six for sure. But then they, you know, and then like every woman tries to get boxed into a two personality, like. You 

[00:04:34] Cody Ray: will see when I was a kid, my mom gave me a, um, a bookmark that had my name on it. 

[00:04:39] And it was like the biblical, like what your name means? Yeah. Helper. Yeah, which is hilarious. 

[00:04:46] Cody: Yeah, I know. And it's hilarious because I was. And help her to nobody. 

First Impressions and Musical Connections

[00:04:52] Josiah: Cody Ray, I'm curious. I don't think I've heard the story of how you and Cody met. 

[00:04:55] Do you remember? 

[00:04:56] Cody Ray: Yeah. 

[00:04:56] Josiah: Um, yeah, 

[00:04:57] Cody Ray: I mean, it's sort of like, I don't remember like the day we met, but we were both playing. A lot of open mics at the camp house, the original camp house, which was on Williams street in downtown Chattanooga. Yep. And, um, and it doubled as the mission church. And, um, and so Cody and I were still, I think I was already, I had left Memphis, so I'd moved to Chattanooga, which meant I'd left the church that I had, um, intern, dad, and thought I would work for. 

[00:05:24] And like, I kind of lived that life. And so when I moved here, I was already kind of away from that. And Cody was very much in your years of like, yeah, because you were working full-time with churches and with. Those things. So, but we met doing open mikes. And so me and my friend, John used to play open mics at the camp house as a duo and Cody was doing a lot of solo stuff there. 

[00:05:45] And then you got connected with my friend, Margaret who used to sing on seeing on your songs. Yeah. And, um, and then eventually I think you asked me to play with you or we, we were like, we started exchanging songs, I think first probably. 

[00:05:59] RODECaster Pro II Main Multitrack: Yeah. 

[00:06:00] Cody Ray: Like, cause you, me and John were like talking and hanging out. Uh, I don't, I remember you in my apartment. On, uh, on vine street. At one point. 

[00:06:08] Yeah. Oh yeah. That's right. Yeah. I remember being there. 

[00:06:11] Cody: Yeah. At one time and we were all like singing in the living room or something. Is that what you 

[00:06:14] Cody Ray: mean, John? Yeah, it was either a cover or a song that we were writing. I can't remember now. Yeah. Man good times. Good times. 

Reflecting on Friendship Dynamics

[00:06:22] Josiah: What was your first impression of Cody? 

[00:06:24] Cody Ray: Man. 

[00:06:25] So I thought this earlier, when you were asking about like, what. What has it been like being w how has it been being his friend? There was like a level of sameness, like Cody felt so similar to me because. I think we both had the religious upbringing and we had been like musicians in church and we had decided to go into that and kind of like, and I think honestly, and I'm going to say, I don't think I've ever talked about this, but I think kind of for the same reasons, I'm projecting my own here, but I feel like I did it. 

[00:06:51] It was kind of like. I know this, and it's kind of my easy way out of having to go into the real world. I can just like stay in the church and make a living here and do this. It was like comfort, I guess. And I guess I kind of felt you were doing the same thing. It's like, oh, He feels like me. 

[00:07:05] RODECaster Pro II Main Multitrack: Yeah. 

[00:07:06] Cody Ray: Yeah. 

[00:07:06] That's how it felt. But also very different because the more I got to know you, I was like, I was like, oh, we don't have the same taste in music. Like, we're not like our voices are very different. We sing very different. Like I. I remember feeling like, oh, we're not like a good musical match until we started playing music for awhile. But at first I was like, oh, we won't vibe. Yeah, but we did. 

[00:07:28] Josiah: Okay, Brandon. 

[00:07:30] Cody: Josiah. 

[00:07:31] Josiah: Do you remember? The first time we met. 

[00:07:34] Brandon: Yeah. Um, I picked into Cisco's such like a first date thing now. That I'm thinking about it because we 

[00:07:40] Josiah: have 

[00:07:40] Brandon: a bromance. Let's face it. You weren't driving yet. And I was driving, we were in high school and I was like, we had met in, um, inquire. And we kind of had chatted a little bit. Like you didn't, you didn't know anyone because you were new. 

[00:07:56] And I was like, well, do you want to go to the, this. We're the high school was playing football that night. And I was, if you'd want to go to the football game, which in retrospect was something that he would probably never want to do. Um, but I had just met him and saw, I was like, do you want to go. And you're like, yeah. I don't drive. 

[00:08:10] So I went to pick you up. And the thing, the reason I remember this is because when I went to pick you up, I went to the wrong house. Cause like, You guys all know, like Josiah lived in a rural kind of place. And so, yeah. The street was dark. I didn't like, I think maybe was your mailbox across the street or something? 

[00:08:28] Yeah. So I pulled into a place like down the street from where he actually lived and it was like scary. It was like, Hillbilly hell. Like it was like some Hills have eyes. People probably live there and I was like, dude, I was like, I didn't even wanna get out of my car. So I'm like texting him, like I'm in your driveway and he's like, no, you're not. And I was like, God. 

[00:08:54] So I like threw my car in reverse and got the hell out of there as fast as I could. 

[00:08:58] And I finally figured out the right house, but anyway, we went to a football game, which I don't remember anything about. And then the. The thing that I did remember about it as he ended up. Staying the night at my house. And like, we just talked about everything. Until like four o'clock, five o'clock in the morning. 

[00:09:15] Like something crazy like that, like the sun was up, I think. Wow. We just talked all night long about all kinds of stuff. And like for the first time of us hanging out, like, I think we both knew like each other's life story and like all kinds of stuff that we had never told anyone else probably. So it was. We just hadn't like it instantly. Deep connection from, from that. 

[00:09:36] So, 

[00:09:36] Josiah: yeah, and we both were oriented towards going. More at that deep level. 

[00:09:41] RODECaster Pro II Main Multitrack: Yeah. 

[00:09:41] Josiah: And like, or being comfortable enough, like if the other person is. To go past that surface level and talk about real stuff. 

[00:09:49] Brandon: Yeah, which I've always loved about you. That was one of our biggest things of like, How we connected because our personality types are very different, but we always connected on that. 

[00:09:58] And like, we never felt. Like we couldn't tell each other something where there was something like too embarrassing to talk about or, yeah. Or like, even if we. And the other thing at the time, which. His crazy now, given where, where we are now in our lives. But. Like I looked up to Josiah is like a better Christian than me. I was. Out there doing, you know, high school kid shit and just didn't really, you know, care. 

[00:10:23] And Josiah was much more mindful of like, and it had a lot to do with his upbringing too. Like my, my upbringing was more like full of just like kind of back row Baptist, like people who showed up around Christmas time or something, you know, Yeah. It wasn't super religious. And so we're just, and, but I was like, I felt like given the culture that we grew up in, like, that's how I needed to be. 

[00:10:42] That's all supposed to be. So I was like, he would be, he's also a good influence on me, you know, I thought at the time that that's one of the things that. 

[00:10:49] Where are 

[00:10:49] Josiah: you wrong about the ? 

[00:10:52] Brandon: I would disagree completely. 

[00:10:55] No actually. I mean, aside from any of that, which obviously none of us knew much about back then, we were just kind of going with the way we were raised, but I'm still all that aside. Absolute wonderful for him continues to be. So it was. He still was a good influence. Just not for the reason I thought at the time. 

[00:11:12] Cody Ray: Yeah. 

[00:11:12] Josiah: That's awesome. 

[00:11:13] So. Cody, Ray, you guys, you and Cody, it. I've been friends. I think. Almost as long as Cody and I have been friends or maybe the same amount. 

Bachelor Party and Transformational Experiences

[00:11:22] Josiah: Um, but you and I didn't meet until last year, which is crazy. 

[00:11:27] Cody Ray: Cody's securities, whatever bachelor party. 

[00:11:29] Josiah: And I'd 

[00:11:30] Cody Ray: heard about you for a long time. 

[00:11:32] Josiah: Yeah. Uh, he never talked about you. 

[00:11:34] So I've heard. To keep my 

[00:11:36] Cody: life separate. Okay. 

[00:11:38] Cody Ray: At least I 

[00:11:39] Cody: did. 

[00:11:39] Cody Ray: Up until the point. 

[00:11:42]

[00:11:42] Cody Ray: Cody like that makes sense. Um, I was going to say too, like the fact that y'all had deep conversations like that in your teen years is really, I think, special. I don't feel like I had conversations like that until I was in my twenties. 

[00:11:56] Cody: Hmm. 

[00:11:56] Cody Ray: Like really getting to know people and even just like someone really wanting to get to know me. 

[00:12:01] Like I felt like if I had deep conversations, that always felt, I learned how to get, have deep conversations about like theology and religion, I think in like, you know, just faith and church stuff. Cause you like, you're sort of mining you're in your internal, but you're not. I don't know. It's like for specific things, you know, I got good at those conversations, but the fact that y'all were having like deep friend talks in your teens and not, not just distracting yourselves is really cool. 

[00:12:28] Brandon: And I really, I really valued it and I don't even know if he knows how much I valued it, but I did, like, it was just one of those things where I had all of these. Thoughts and like all of these things that I wouldn't, because I'm. Very introspective person like. I just think about a lot of, you know, myself and just all of these. And also just trying to assess things all the time. 

[00:12:46] Not only just with myself, but just how I think about things. And so I'd have all of these thoughts and, um, You know, at the time it's like, there's no where to express this because no one your age, you know, when you're like 16, nobody wants to talk about. Exactly. Yeah. You know, having a friend like Josiah was we, and that was something that we did a lot, actually. 

[00:13:07] Like we would hang out and be up until sun up just often. Yeah. Just talking, hanging out. Yeah. 

[00:13:12] Cody: Yeah, I actually did that a lot when I was a kid too, though. Like I had conversations with people. The difference is that I don't remember who those people were. It's actually, it was actually just, you. 

[00:13:26]

[00:13:26] Cody: beautiful. I can't picture their face or their name. Uh, just remember me. It's. I remember. Different versions of Cody around. 

[00:13:37] Josiah: Her name's Irma. 

[00:13:39] She builds fences in her spare time. 

[00:13:44] Cody Ray: Do you want to get back to the bachelor party when we met? Yeah, so, so Cody, Ray. You and I, I was joking like Cody did mention you, um, mainly like playing music together and when yeah. When he would tell me about you guys having shows and stuff and wait, hang on. You guys met at the bachelor party. That's right. 

[00:14:03] Josiah: Yeah. Yeah. And became inseparable, but yeah. Yeah, I say. So I actually, I. I think we've you and I have talked about this Cody, but yeah, I going into that weekend. And that whole, that whole time, last year was really transformational for me because it was just coming out of the summer when I had that big. You know, transformational night. And then, um, I just, I kept finding myself in situations that turned all of my, like worldviews are around. Like smaller things. Um, like on its head. Yeah. 

[00:14:36] And I went into that for whatever reason. I probably, because. The nature of, um, the contention that we kind of had in our relationship the couple of years prior to that, like, you know, Oh, yeah. And, and so I had these, uh, preconceptions about. What your friend group would be like. And so I actually did, I was really kind of dreading that trip. 

[00:14:59] I had so much anxiety around it and I didn't want to go and I was doing it just because I cared about you and, and I was your best man. And so. And you know, responsible for it. And I wanted to make sure you had a good time. So I was trying to remain open. I'm like, oh God, this is gonna suck. And then, um, and then we get to the. We all met at need loves for breakfast. Before we got on the road. 

[00:15:22] Um, and it was like just the conversation in that. Um, I was like, wait. These people. Like there's substance to them. And then, and then Cody Ray was one of the first. I had a bunch of dumb. 

[00:15:40] Cody: We're going to be so shallow. 

[00:15:42] Brandon's. Thinking is relationship. 

[00:15:49] Josiah: . 

[00:15:49] Yeah. Now I'm hearing how much of an asshole. 

[00:15:54] Uh, yeah, I guess, I guess it was more like, I didn't. I didn't think that I would find a group of people that I could be myself around and then be accepted. Yeah. And, and then Cody, Ray was one of the, one of the people in that group that really made me feel accepted really quickly. Um, and Korea, you have this. You know, you have this deep interest in other people. And, um, this, uh, Like genuine curiosity and, and like you have a big heart. And, and that comes through, but at the same time, you're also very analytical. 

[00:16:29] And so it's like, we were able to connect really quickly in that way. And it was similar to, you know, uh, Brandon and I different, but, but similar, like how Brandon and I would have those conversations like you and I just like when, in real deep, Or like real quickly. Yeah. And I think there's some glue here between all three of, of us. 

[00:16:47] Cody Ray: Um, and I would probably imagine from what you're saying, truly you do Brandon we're like, you were talking about having things that begin to click for you. And it was sort of like your whole worldview is changing now. Like I went through that in 2021. And, you know, my, my whole like life changing experience, which for me, was a marriage ending. And I had all of those. I remember when you start talking about that, like, like, oh, like all these little things, like people were changing how I saw people, like, like I just started seeing the world differently. 

[00:17:17] I had gone through that and I recognized immediately too, that you were like, when you started sharing your life with me, I was like, oh yes, like here's another person who's gone from like a performative. Uh, personality, you know, it's like, I am this personality and this life and these boxes that I check and becoming no, I'm just a full human being and I'm just existing and living and finding myself in that world. And I feel like we connected on that immediately. 

[00:17:43] Yeah. 

[00:17:44] Brandon: Yeah. 

[00:17:44] Cody Ray: And it's been so cool since I've known you. Because it's just unfolded quicker and quicker and bigger and bigger for you in the last year or so? Yeah, at a year now. Yeah, 

[00:17:53] Josiah: we are. We're like right at 

[00:17:54] Cody Ray: a 

[00:17:54] Josiah: year. And I feel like I've known you. 

[00:17:58] As long as I've known Brandon. And so. They just feel that yeah. Yeah. You 

[00:18:01] Cody Ray: just feel like, uh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, that's the 

[00:18:04] Brandon: great part about skipping the surface level stuff and like indict. Cause you really can't truly get to know someone in a short period that way. 

[00:18:09] Cody Ray: Yeah. 

[00:18:10] Brandon: Um, Which, and that's why Josiah and I. Clicked so well, and I would like to point out that you were talking about not meeting Cody Ray and told Cody his bachelor party. 

[00:18:19] I did not meet Cody until your bachelor party. Well, yeah. 

[00:18:25] . 

[00:18:25] Yeah, that's crazy. 

[00:18:27] Cody: Yeah. That's wild. But I'd heard about you. I just never, I never met you until then. You don't. And on that point, I've been trying to keep this in my, in my mind. So I didn't forget. I think that, um, it's, it's kind of funny when I think back at how. Um, as a five and I feel like you probably experienced this too. I aware it's like in different points in your life, you feel like I just wish I could find a group of people. That I get along with and they all get along and you're like, it's like you, you ID, uh, Like idolize that idea. 

[00:18:58] That's on, you know, every TV show of life. Right. Um, Like the, the group of friends that just. All get along and they all have their own dynamic and it's always like something interesting is happening or whatever. And I think growing up, I was always looking for that. And then in being in church, everything was always superficial. 

[00:19:17] It always felt like. It's a phony version. Right. And so it's like, I knew that that wasn't it. So then I was also kind of being, not brainwashed, but like it was, you know, indoctrinated in this idea that like, oh, that's actually the, like these people that are pretending with each other. Like that's what happened. How it's supposed to be. 

[00:19:34] Yeah. So it kind of ruins relationships even further for me as a five, because I was already on the fence. I can't, you know, And I think that was a big part of it. And. But I, I think about, you know, as you get, as I got older and three different points in my life, I think a five tends to like dip their toes in different groups and see like, will you accept me? 

[00:19:53] Do I, am I, is this like a thing that we can do? And then you do that a bunch throughout all your life, but then like me, I kept all of that separate so often. And then I'm a bit I'm sitting. I guess it was a kind of a, an unconscious realization where I was like, You know, I've been looking for groups this whole time, but I actually have all the pieces to the group that I want. 

[00:20:12] And so when I was thinking about the bachelor party, it was actually pretty easy for me to go, okay. Here's a group of people that I love and care about. And then started just as a five would do start curating. Personality types. And I just bring the certain group together that I thought would be the most fun for me in any case, no matter what happens, good or bad, it's going to be interesting for me. 

[00:20:34] And, and then I also thought this would be interesting for everybody else. I think this is actually a really well-rounded group. 

[00:20:39] Cody Ray: Sociopath. 

[00:20:45] Brandon: Writing it all around me. Everyone will serve. Each other, like I thought about this. And this 

[00:20:51] Cody Ray: personality they might fight. And that would be fun for me. 

[00:20:55] Cody: Man, maybe fives are the ones behind 

[00:20:57] Brandon: reality. So that you bring that up is interesting because. I don't, maybe it's not universal, but I'm not a five. 

[00:21:04] And I identify with that wholeheartedly. I did the same thing because I would always see. Groups of friends that I thought I was jealous of in terms of like their relationships. Yeah. And then I would actually spend time really around them and then they would just like, Talk shit about each other or like there was, there were things that didn't seem genuine. 

[00:21:23] Right. And then to your point about church, like that's absolutely like people do like small groups. Right. And they act like they're all, like, everyone's like just. So into everyone and like just cares about, cares about them so much and all of these things. And then you learn that it's like, It is very performative. 

[00:21:41] And so. To Cody's point. Like, I, I thought the same thing for years. Like none of this is real. Right. And so it did actually make me super thankful for people like Josiah in my life all of the transformation that he's gone through is, has been similar to some of the transformation that I've gone through. 

[00:21:56] And so I never felt like there was anything that, like, I couldn't just. Like we couldn't sit down and have a conversation. We actually had a recent one. Um, Can you came. You came up and stayed at the hotel. In Galton and I came and hung out with you at the bar. We had like a long conversation about all kinds of like religion and all kinds of things we do, like just at a hotel bar, just talking about religion. That's what people do. 

[00:22:19] I mean, that does actually sound par for the collection. Tracks for sure. Um, but yeah, exactly the same thing I got, I ended up having to, and I did the same thing. I kept friend groups separate. Cause I didn't know like how well they would get along. In other with other people. So I'm like, okay, well, this person might not really care for this group. 

[00:22:37] And this person might not care for that group. So I would keep it separate that way. And then I was like, after a time, I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to try it anyway and just going to do it anyway. Yeah. So. 

[00:22:46] Cody: And what you usually find is like the commonality you found with all of them. They also usually have. And so it kind of brings everything together in that way and yeah, it's, it ends up. 

[00:22:55] It was. I mean, now I'm like so happy that all of my, my different parts of my life. Bled together because it's, it's, it's better now. I feel like I do have the community of friends that I feel more enriched by in my life. Um, and so if I hadn't done that, And I'd still just be here trying to figure out who my group is. 

[00:23:16] Maybe that's something that comes with age too. 

[00:23:18] Brandon: Yeah. I think, I think you start to, or at least I have started to. Care less like you were talking about. Like when you were younger and Josiah the same thing, particularly within the church environment, like things being performative in the way you live being performative, but essentially. Living as if other people are watching you. And I think when you get older, you just get a little bit tired of that anyway. 

[00:23:37] And you're like, you know what, if they don't like it, they don't like it. You know? And you just go. Um, or at least that's been my experience, but, um, same. 

Challenges and Annoyances in Friendships

[00:23:46] Josiah: So now that we've talked through some of the amazing benefits of being friends with. 

[00:23:53] Oh, I thought that's all we were supposed to talk about. Classic seven. 

[00:24:00] Uh, what are some maybe little bit tiny? Kind of annoying or frustrating things. 

[00:24:08] I know there aren't many, but you know, Definitely. If you can really think hard about it, really tough. Um, I think for me as a seven and we, we talked about this earlier. Something that I obviously didn't identify at a young age, but like, you like to be indoors and be like very introverted and I'm I want to go do stuff. And that would drive me nuts. 

[00:24:30] Brandon: So like we, we would hang out, But typically at your house at night til whatever hour and then get up the next day and like, okay, well now, like I'm ready to go do something or get out of the house or something. And Josiah just wants to keep doing what we're doing at 3:00 AM, which is watching movies or what. You know, whatever watching anime. also, I also hated. I don't know if anime is a five thing or not, but no, it's not. I mean, you identify with that. 

[00:24:59] So, um, but yeah, just trying to get him like. Off his ass. A lot of times it's tough. Like I would literally go in, like he would, he would sleep so late and I just didn't get it. And so like, I would go in, I would go into his house cause he always left the, the basement door unlocked. And I would just go in and just start throwing stuff at him or poking him or something. 

[00:25:20] I'm like, dude. It's like it's one in the afternoon. Like, let's do something. What are you doing? So. He's out with loss. That was the, that was the frustrating part. And also, and I've read that this was a five thing you guys can correct me. You probably know better than I do, but Josiah is aversion to physical activity. Just like, if it was going to require like an increase in heart rate, he wasn't into it, dude. 

[00:25:45] Yeah. 

[00:25:47] A hundred percent. Yeah. 

[00:25:50] Cody: Um, yeah, that's I I'm not like that at all, but because. I'm on I'm the same way. Cause we've been, when we live together and stuff, it's like I would want to go do stuff or do, and he was just like, On the couch watching anime. This isn't a five 

[00:26:02] Cody Ray: thing. This is 

[00:26:03] Cody: Josiah. I think, 

[00:26:05] Josiah: I think it's a deep depression thing. Very well, could have 

[00:26:08] Brandon: been. And it could be that I'm sort of like intertwining some of that, but yeah, I've also read that about other fives that they're just more either. I mean. For energy, 

[00:26:17] Josiah: energy calculus. 

[00:26:18] Yeah. Like we L I, in general, we look at energy as a sort of fixed supply. That's what we're very careful about where we put it and we want to use most of it for our mind processing, which means that we don't prioritize. Using it for body stuff like anything. Like that like puts us in our body. 

[00:26:37] Brandon: And, and, and mental energy tends to like drain you. I've I've noticed, like if you spend a lot of mental energy, like you're not going to do anything else. 

[00:26:46] Josiah: Yeah. A lot of high processing. 

[00:26:48] Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. over-processing. Yeah, that too. Which I think you've gotten better at actually. Yeah, definitely. But yeah. That's definitely been a. Been a thing and it's, I just didn't know about it at the time. So I just was like, you know, I'm a kid, so I'm like, you're lame, dude. 

[00:27:05] This sucks. You know, that's really the, the, the best way I can analyze it at the 

[00:27:10] Josiah: time. So Cody Ray. Yeah. Uh, what are some things that have sucked about being friends with Cody? I was literally going to say that I was going to turn it in and be like, what 

[00:27:19] Cody: sucks about me? 

[00:27:22] Cody Ray: Okay. Good question, honestly. I think through. Throughout our friendship. I think. Our differences have always worked for whatever reason. Um, I would say. Used to, I was super anxious all the time. And so I had to be in control all the time and I needed to have a plan for everything. And I think which is actually not natural for me. 

[00:27:45] I've learned, I, I don't act. I don't feel this way anymore. But you by your personality type are a planner and an organizer. And I think sometimes for me, that would feel just like constricting or like that there was like a wall between us, like. The fact that we both had such like calculated plans on how we were. So, 

[00:28:06] Cody: yeah. 

[00:28:08] Cody Ray: And then. But I also have always been a people pleaser. 

[00:28:11] And so I always found a way to like work with you and work with that. And it never really, it never caused like a real problem for me, but I've noticed now, That I'm a lot more just kind of like, I like jumping and just seeing how I get caught. Or if I don't, you know, just seeing how the fall is and, um, and you are still such a planner and I, and I really admire it now. 

[00:28:32] Cause it's, it's like a balance for me. 

Turning Negatives into Positives

[00:28:33] Cody Ray: It's like, oh, I, I, I know if I'm working with Cody, like he's going to show up with like everything on a list and everything planned and, you know, Um, so I like that. And I, and I think that's something that's grown with us. So it doesn't suck about me. Um, yes, they on topic. Sorry. I just turned 

[00:28:50] Cody: something that was kind of a negative into a positive. I don't, 

[00:28:53] Cody Ray: I truly don't have moments where okay. 

[00:28:56] Here's something. 

[00:28:59] No, I think. I that didn't take long. 

[00:29:02] Just to put your mind into it. That, uh, 

The Tendency to Drift Apart

[00:29:06] Cody Ray: I think that your natural tendency to sort of almost in the way that there was a joke earlier about how, like you didn't talk about knowing me to Josiah, like, like, um, I think that there's a tendency with your sort of, and maybe this is a five thing where you just kind of stay in your little spot, your. Uh, that's a weird way to put that. But you kind of just like, have more that introversion where like, I don't know if like, if life didn't keep bringing us together, if we would've stayed friends, I think it would have been an easy and easy path. 

[00:29:35] And I thought a couple of times that we would just sort of drift apart and then something would bring us back together. Yeah, but I think that like, That could have easily happened. Maybe that's it. A possible negative. Is that like, Very easily. We could have drifted apart. Yeah, because we wouldn't talk for like a year. 

[00:29:52] Yeah. You know? But then when we did talk, it was like right back in. Yeah. Reminder of like, oh, this 

[00:29:57] Cody: is there's this sameness, this is why we always connect. Yeah. There is that connection that we had, um, which I think was when we would get back together, then we would like do some things for a little while. 

[00:30:06] Then I'd be like, kind of fade off. The big one though 

[00:30:08] Cody Ray: was when you. 

Reconnecting Through Deconstruction

[00:30:09] Cody Ray: Deconstructed. I was like, that was like that cemented like lifelong cause I had already gone through it. Yeah. And that was something that was like a separation for, for us, for sure. Yeah. I completely understand that now. And then, and. And then now it's like the way that we're now layers and layers into that, because it's not really deconstruction. 

[00:30:29] That's not a way that it's really just like sales. But it's, self-actualization on like a longer term or longer. Yeah. You know? No timeline. Not much of, yeah, not deconstruction as much as reconstruction forward, but yeah, but our friendship could have dissolved easily. You know, throughout the years. 

[00:30:44] And, uh, I think it's just random chance. That it kept coming back together. 

[00:30:50] Brandon: But I'm sure glad it did. 

The Effort to Maintain Friendships

[00:30:53] Josiah: Is it because that he wasn't proactive about 

[00:30:57] Cody Ray: like keeping the friendship going, is that yeah. And I think, and now I know that this is more of your personality type. Like even though we're close, Like I had like, I'm like, I can not rely on Cody. To just keep showing up in my life. I have to make an effort because neither of us will. 

[00:31:13] Yeah. And I sort of, I'm used to like, I'll start a friendship and then like, I'm always down to like hang out and be around, but I don't often initiate. Like I've learned about myself, like, yeah. Um, but we, because we're both this way actually. Um, dang more sameness. 

[00:31:31]

[00:31:31] Cody Ray: nothing is Cody's fault. It's just like, 

[00:31:35] Josiah: It's such a to. 

[00:31:37] This is why Cody keeps you around. 

[00:31:40] Cody Ray: Nothing is Cody's fault. 

[00:31:45] Uh, I just think it's a combination. Um, 

[00:31:48] Cody: yeah, well, no, and I think that's definitely a vice of mine is that I, I oftentimes don't. I don't invest. Um, as much in other people until they show me. Kind of that, that big investment from their side first. And then I think, cause like so much, so often, I guess I've done those kinds of things where it's like, there's a subconscious level and there's a, there's a hurt there that I am not realizing that throughout my life that I did that. 

[00:32:14] And, um, it would, it would be hard for me to like want to connect I guess. And so. Yeah, I don't, it is kind of weird that I would a. I kind of put people in those situations to do that, but. Did you get in 

[00:32:28] Cody Ray: this situation a little? Yeah, I think, I think it's part of. 

[00:32:32] Cody: But it's not, no, it's like, it's because, you know, I didn't know if you. Does it tend to, you know, do it as well. 

[00:32:39] So it's like, we were always kind of like this. Are we friends? Do we want to be friends? Like, you know, and I felt like we were kind of suspended in that place for so long. And it's now I don't feel that way now. I have to remind myself that like, I don't need to wait on other people's investment, just do it. 

[00:32:52] But when somebody does like, say, I reach out to you, we then you're like, or you asked me to hang out. We do something it's a really good time. And then. I feel the need when I have something that I thought, oh, I thought Cody would like this. I would call you. Or I would text you more like, there's that connection piece. 

[00:33:06] That's like the more we're in. That deeper connection where I feel that sameness in that same page. of our, of our friendship. I'm, I'm more invested as well. Naturally. I was like, I don't have to try as hard. I don't have to make that decision. 

[00:33:19] Cody Ray: Absolutely. And I 

[00:33:20] Cody: think that's kind of, that's where we've been going for a little while now. 

[00:33:22] Cody Ray: Yeah. 

The Cyclical Nature of Friendship

[00:33:23] Cody Ray: We're just more parallel and it's. The cycles happened enough times over the years of us being friends, where it was like, okay, like the, the mutual investment has slowed. This could just like dissolve and then something would pop up. But it happened probably like five, six times. Right. And now it's like, I understand this is our cycle and I don't like, it just never feels unnatural to me. It's like, oh yeah. Like, yeah. No. And it's great. 

[00:33:50] Cody: I felt like, yeah, I'm at that place now where it's like, I know that throughout this life now we're, we're in the same orbit, but yeah. So no matter what we do, we're always going to meet. And so it's like, we might as well just accept that and be like lifelong friends. It's like family. Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:34:03] It feels more like family. Yeah. That's how I am with just I as well. 

[00:34:06] Brandon: Yeah. It's similar with, with our friendship as well. And obviously we there's some distance there too. Cause we live. You know, two and a half hours away, but. Still. Kind of over time. Yeah, just, I would just kind of be in his own world for awhile and. And I sometimes just didn't know what the heck was going on with him for a long time. And then we would just catch up and he would tell me all, like, Two years worth of information. Yeah. In a nice, familiar. Just do that. We would just do that and I'm okay with it. 

[00:34:36] Like. I think some people do. Kind of get bothered by it. And I'm just, I guess I'm just weird. I just, it doesn't, I'm like, well, people have their own lives and they have a lot going on and I have a lot going on. So, you know, and for somebody like Josiah, especially since we've been friends for so long and we had such a great connection, um, just. I have tons and tons of leeway for, you know, to just be like, you know what, when we hang out, it'll be awesome. 

[00:34:58] I know it'll be awesome. And in the meantime, like, you know, he has kids to chase around and he has, you know, A wife to support and a lot of things going on in his life. And so we'll, we'll, we'll get there, but yeah, it's very, it's definitely like a hot and cold thing. In terms of like, In terms of hanging out, not the relationship itself. Keep in touch via text and things like that, but mostly memes. 

[00:35:20] Yeah. Yeah, mostly. That's what a lot of relationships are now. Anyway. I feel 

[00:35:24] Cody: like, yeah, for sure. 

[00:35:26] Brandon: I mean 

[00:35:26] Cody: exchange and it's actually kind of a big deal then that we're all hanging out in the same room together for the first thing was we're all in each other's orbit and one way or the other. How we've stayed kind of like, yeah. 

[00:35:36] You know, um, I, I don't mean this as an insult, but like proximity friends, like. It's easy to pick. Friends together and around each other. 

[00:35:45] Brandon: The funny thing is, is like every time. We all. And this first time I've been hanging out with you, Cody. Um, it's already cool. Um, but every time, like I'm around Cody, I'm like, dude, Cody's awesome. 

[00:35:56] Like we should all hang out more and then it's like the same thing. Yeah. And then we just don't see each other for forever, but that was one of the reasons like I wanted to make sure that I could come down for this, to be able to take advantage of this time. 

[00:36:07] Cody: So. I'll say this, like, here's something I don't say often about any situation in my life, but, um, anytime that he does, like, you guys recently went on a trip to the beach or something together, and I remember thinking like, Where the fuck was my invite. 

[00:36:21] I actually haven't. I ever had that same thought when he does stuff with you, I'm like, dude, I couldn't come to that. 

[00:36:28] Uh, we need to make an open invitation, both 

[00:36:30] Brandon: ways. Definitely should. And I think part of it is not even intentional. It's just like, yeah. We both, but I think probably, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. Just say it, but I think like, to a degree, you like, he values that one-on-one time with his friends. Um, so he probably like, if he's going to hang with you, one-on-one like, he doesn't want that to be interrupted. And so, and same with us, which I do value, but also like if it's somebody that I connect with really well, I'm cool with like, um, the more the merrier con. Yeah. These people 

[00:36:58] Cody: are cool. I'm the same way, actually. 

[00:37:00] So I can relate to if that is, if you do line up with that. 

[00:37:03] Josiah: I mean, I, I, I do value the one-on-one. I do really enjoy like the smaller group dynamic, like this. Um, you get past like, Five six people. It starts to, it can. Well, I would agree with that. Yeah. And I think, I think a lot of times that it's just a party where yeah. It was also for as the small get together. 

[00:37:23] Six is a party. Well, I think, I think six can work because then you can split into two groups of three and then you can kind of bounce between them. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. 

[00:37:32] Cody Ray: Um, yeah. Once the split happens. Okay. Yeah. 

Balancing Social Anxiety and Connection

[00:37:36] Josiah: I think for me, There is a bit of anxiety that comes with, because you guys haven't hung out a lot. 

[00:37:42] And I know, and I would assume that you get along in and I've experienced that, but we haven't really hung out a lot. I think there's an anxiety of coming in, like, okay, I don't know how this dynamic is going to go. And so I don't, you know, I, I it's it's it takes less, never gone poorly. I know, it's it. 

[00:38:00] Doesn't, it doesn't matter. Rational. I get that. No, 

[00:38:02] Cody: it's like what, what we, what we, uh, What can sometimes come across as calculus, sociopathic calculation is actually social. I like that term, actually social anxiety. A hundred percent, five, just having such a deep seated social anxiety. So often that I've learned and I've experienced in my life with, you know, as myself and other fives. 

[00:38:19] And that drives so much of our calculation, which is, which 

[00:38:23] Josiah: is weird because I'm a social dominant five and I have like experienced. Usually controls. Yeah, so. No, like, meaning like I'm a social five. And so I like, I, there's a part of me that really craves that social aspect. And at the same time it can make me anxious. 

[00:38:41] So I, I have to, um, and I'm much, much better about this now, but like I had to like find coping mechanisms to make it work because I also really needed it. Um, but that's one of the reasons why Brandon I, I was drawn to you. As a seven. Um, and I think the eight wing is important in this too, because I like, even though you're a seven, you are the most, uh, like even keeled kind of stable. The person that in my life. 

[00:39:08] And, and, and especially when I was younger, I was, I felt so volatile because I. I suppose because I have a really strong four wing. And so I, and, and then also, you know, emotional trauma as a kid, and then I had all of this, uh, just irrational. Uh, responses to things a lot of times, Yeah. And I agree with them. 

Emotional Growth and Self-Acceptance

[00:39:29] Josiah: And so Our relationship has been interesting how it's evolved over the years, because, on one side, like you've sort of helped me stay grounded at the, in those times. Um, which I appreciated. 

[00:39:40] And on the other side, like, It was almost like it was a reminder to how irrational I was being. And, and because I couldn't process those emotions, I didn't know what to do with them. And so then I would try to stuff them down and then they would just like come out and, and then I felt shame around that. 

[00:39:56] Um, and it's not like you were shaming me for it, but it was just that, that contrast of you being like, why are you responding this way? Because you're just so like, even keeled. And, and then I'm like, I, then I felt bad. So I think. Sometimes I would push you away when I was in those volatile states, because I grew up, I didn't want that contrast. 

[00:40:15] And, you know, to remind me of that, I didn't know. That was the reason, but yeah, I do remember. I didn't know that until just now. I'm processing. I was thinking through it. Yeah. Um, and, but one of the other things that I always appreciate about you too, is. You could hang out with anyone like you, you had so many different kind of friend groups, like. Yeah, very diverse. 

[00:40:34] Brandon: I still do. It weirds me out sometimes. I'm like, I don't even know how this happened. But it just 

[00:40:39] Josiah: happens. 

[00:40:40] Brandon: That 

[00:40:40] Josiah: way. 

[00:40:41] Yeah. And I think a big part of that too, is, um, You have a very strong sense of self. and so you and I. And so on in some ways, like you're very nonjudgmental. Like I that's, the thing is like, I've never really felt, um, like I always felt like I could be myself around you because you didn't judge me. And even though. Sometimes. We were really, really bad about this when we were young, but we would just like make fun of everyone. Yeah. We give everyone shit. Uh, and, and so there there's that part, but, but, but like That was more of a superficial, just kind of like us being stupid teenagers. 

[00:41:15] Right. But when it came to like real stuff, there was no judgment. and, or at least I didn't feel any, maybe you're judging me silently and I didn't know, but I never got that impression. And so that whole, that gate, that created space for me to. Work through. Like the learn how to work through the thing, that volatiles stuff in my life. Without pushing everyone away. Um, and so I was able to sort of take small steps towards figuring out how to integrate all of that. 

[00:41:42] you probably don't realize you helped me with that, but just you being in my life, how many without a ton? No, that's awesome. 

Reflecting on Past Judgments

[00:41:46] Brandon: And we've had similar conversations, but I think like you have grown so much in that realm in terms of like, Well, we've talked about when you were young and especially like in the, church and all that kind of stuff. 

[00:41:56] And then you ha we like the church. without getting into all that teaches you. That all of these things are bad and wrong. And like, they focus so much on like petty stuff that, you know, Yeah. And so it was like, oh, don't, don't tell Josiah we drank yesterday. The best story. 

[00:42:15]

[00:42:15] Josiah: so, so we had, uh, like our core group of friends. It was like me and Brandon and Derek and Nixon. And we often ended up at Derek's house because his mom basically let us do whatever we wanted and she was 

[00:42:27] Brandon: never home. And she's never home. Yeah. 

[00:42:30] Josiah: And he had this like big screen TV for the time. It was like a big screen TV. And, uh, and they were over there drinking. 

[00:42:39] And then, and I would, I was in, I was so judgmental at this point in my life that I would. Um, like I would get pissed at them for drinking. Or if we're doing anything that I thought was we weren't supposed to do. and. So they have been drinking and, and like filming it. Yeah. And then they like with the, with the, I guess, 

[00:43:02] Brandon: At that time. 

[00:43:03] So we had somebody, I don't even remember who had filmed like a house party that we had done at Derek's house. And we were like, oh, w we wonder what's on this tape. Right. So we put it in. And we're drinking while we're watching. And then I come 

[00:43:17] Josiah: and then I come over in the middle of this. And I walk in it's like drink section. Yeah, I walk in and, and, and, and Nixon kind of freaks out because he thinks I'm going to get hit. Well, I mean, yeah, he knows I'm going to get, he knows. And he's like, he was like, man, I wasn't drinking. 

[00:43:34] I wasn't drinking. And this. Big ass screen is him drinking. As you say he's behind 

[00:43:40] Brandon: themselves. 

[00:43:43] You couldn't have written that into a sit-com any better than the way it happened. Absurd. And we just like, I died laughing. It was just, it was too funny. I. But yeah. But that's the thing that you've grown with so much, like in terms of just. Being cool. 

[00:44:03] That's probably the best way to put it. But I think like for me, just. Knowing cause I'm. all, I'm so much harder on myself than anybody else's. So they're in that. I think that's a big reason. I don't judge people's cause I've screwed up so much over the course of my life and all the things when I was young that I thought, oh, you're not supposed to do that. 

[00:44:21] Right. At some point I've probably done it right. Or thought about it or something. Yeah. So now it's just like being, like, being realistic with yourself and being honest with yourself and saying, yeah, you know what, I've done something similar. So I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not going to talk about that person doing it. Whereas, I think some people just ignore a lot of the things that they're doing and then focus on the shit that other people are doing. 

[00:44:44] And then it makes it easier for them to judge people. But. in a lot of times that, you know, if it's not a direct violation to me, I just don't care. Like if you're whatever you want to do in your life. If, if that, you know, if you're enjoying it or whatever, Then do it, man. 

[00:44:56] Cody Ray: The way the three of us were raised. Leads to so much, cause you talked about your family's more of like a back row. You grew up in like the Southern Christian tradition, right. 

[00:45:06] But the three of us were devout. Yes. Yeah. And I think that leads to self-righteousness. Yes. And it's so I think I've come to a place of non-judgment the way that you're talking about too, and it's slightly differently, but I was, so I was also, I remember, like there was a point when I was probably. 19. 

[00:45:26] And my friend was 21 and we were talking about living together and he won. We played in a Christian band and he wanted to have beer in the house if he wanted it. And I was like, that will not be allowed. To adults. It's so hard to imagine. But it didn't. And he, he, that was one of the first people. He was like, I find paying to live here and I'm legally allowed to drink. 

[00:45:46] I will put beer in the fridge and you're not going to say anything about it. And I was like, how can he say. 

[00:45:52] Correct. 

[00:45:56] But I just, I so identify with your, like, Horrified like. You know, at your friend's drinking. Like I would have been the same thing when I was a 

[00:46:04] Brandon: teenager. I had to put little stickers on it that just says was previously water. 

[00:46:12]

[00:46:12] Brandon: this is Christian. 

[00:46:15] Josiah: Brendan. I don't, I don't know if we've talked about this before or not. I think maybe, but. I for the longest time. Because as a five, I want to be seen as intelligent and competent. Um, And for the longest time to, I. Like even up to within the last, I don't know, four to five years, I think. I was self-conscious that you thought I was stupid. Which is absurd. Because you're one of the smartest people I know, but I didn't know that you thought that. And it was because I, I, I was always warring with my emotions. And I felt irrational compared to you. 

[00:46:54] And so I, so then I, I translated that, that to intelligence and, um, and then thought that you thought that I was stupid. No, I think it's funny because, and I guess I. And I should have maybe done a better job of, of telling you, but it just seemed like you projected for so long that you, that you were intelligent. 

[00:47:13] Brandon: So I thought, well, he seems well aware that he's intelligent, right? 

[00:47:18] And I don't mean that in a bad way, like. It's fair. Acting holier than now or anything like you just came across. And I'm confident in your. For a time he did, but. Not because of intelligence, but because he knew more about Jesus than everyone else. Yeah. 

[00:47:34] I feel you on that. 

[00:47:38] But no, like you just projected like confidence in your intelligence, even if you weren't, you were projecting it. So I didn't, I never felt like I should tell you, like, it just seemed like you knew like intuitively. So I got always. Looked at you as someone like, even. There are, uh, There are a lot of things that I think that you're smarter than me about like, and there are certain things, particularly in tech and things like that, that if I. I need to know something. 

[00:48:06] I'm like, you're the first person I think of. Oh, I'm going to text Josiah about this. Yeah. Like. I mean. Yeah. And I've always thought you were like a very like analytical and intelligent person. You did. W where, where we probably differed was just on the emotional part, right. Where. Your emotional responses where sometimes. Maybe not. Not in line with like, Reality. But like sounds mean, but like, they were just. And it was very love that you're searching led to that. Not that one. 

[00:48:39] Cody Ray: Not that one, not that one out of touch with reality. 

[00:48:44] Brandon: Actually I was looking for something nicer and I couldn't find it. That's why I'm fully in agreement. We're on the same page. But it was just like, um, And it was also very hot and cold. So that's the part of the thing that would like really like shock me at times like yesterday we were having a blast and today. Like you're in a terrible mood. You know what I mean? 

[00:49:03] And so it was like, I'm like, how did we go from there to this? Like nothing happened between yesterday and today. Right. But there's probably a lot of mental things that happened. In that time period, that, that got him there that I was completely unaware of. And then, and then he's outwardly projecting it today where he didn't yesterday. 

[00:49:20] And so like, that was very confusing to me. And I was just like, dude, what the hell are you doing? It's confusing to me too. 

[00:49:28] Josiah: That was the thing it's like, I couldn't explain it. I couldn't, I couldn't put it into words. I had no way to process it. Right. And so then I just felt shame around it. Cause I'm like, I am, I am acting like a crazy person. And I don't know why. I don't know why. And I definitely can't like, and that's one reason why, you know, I would shut most people out. And I'll be honest. 

[00:49:46] Brandon: I was, uh, I was a bad friend about that. Cause like I would get frustrated with it and I would reach a certain point where I was like, you know what, call me tomorrow when you're not being a dumb ass. You know what I mean? You know, which is not the friend thing to do at. I don't know. I feel like that was reasonable. Definitely. Well at 16, when you don't really understand. 

[00:50:04] And they in, in the person is also 16 and can't really convey to you why. Yeah, they are. They're feeling the way they're feeling, then it's like, you just feel like you hit a wall and you're just not being fruitful in any of it. So you're just like, you know what? I'm leaving. I'll be back tomorrow. 

[00:50:18] Don't be a dumb ass when I get here, you know? 

[00:50:22] I honestly, that's exactly how my friends to be with me now. But just like Josiah, I did not understand. Number one, like I never had validation of the things that I needed to know were true about myself. I'll like, and I didn't know how to validate the people in my life because of that. And now I do know those things. And it's like, I was so afraid also, like you were saying that people didn't think I was smart, that people didn't like me, like that was in my mind all the time. 

[00:50:50] Cody Ray: And then now I don't worry about those things. So I wa I know all my friends who love me, like, I know why they love me, and I know why I love them. And if you Cody, if you're ever just like, Hey, you're being a Dick today, like I need you to stop. Like, I love you. Cause I know that you see me. I know you know who I am. 

[00:51:07] So if you tell me I'm being a Dick, I'm like, oh, like he's not going. I don't like you anymore. This friendships over because you're a Dick. I've now seen some new information that makes me hate you. It's like, I see you in something that's not right. And I like, I think that's the kind of friend. Yeah, that's a great thing. 

[00:51:22] Brandon: The difference is the relationship though, right? Like. It's the validation. Yeah. There's there's like a foundation to it. Yeah. You always know that you're good. It doesn't matter what they say. Yeah. Yeah. 

The Importance of Honest Feedback

[00:51:31] Josiah: I think it's more like, for me, it's more about self-acceptance. Because. Um, I used to be the type of person that could not, or word on your it. But yeah, cause there was because if, if, if someone would tell me that's true, I would then start piling all this shame on top of it. And. Yeah, your brain is like, here's why that's not true. Right. Yeah. Now or it's just like, he's like, yeah. 

[00:51:54] Here's why it's true. And here's why you're a piece of shit for like, like all this stuff. I'm just beating myself up. Oh yeah. It's negative. Your brain is like, let me tell you why that's true. Yeah. Whereas, whereas. To your point, like now I'm at the I'm at the point where. I can. I can accept the things that. Uh, you know, would be seen as deficiencies or things that are, I'm still working on. Um, but at the same time, it can also accept my own worth and my own value. Um, and I don't hate myself. And so, uh, so now, uh, I also value that direct feedback because it is a it's, it's a temperature. Jack. 

[00:52:35] It's like, you know, The people who are closest to me. Are are the ones who are, who will see my blind spots first. Yeah. And, and that means they got my back. If you're pointing out my blind spot, you're not attacking me. You're trying to, you know, you're helping me defend myself. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good way to put it accepting and knowing yourself too, is like, if somebody is like pointing something out, you're like that tracks. Yeah, I am doing that. I think T sorry, just, uh, I think too, like a piece of this, at least for me was like, I was always like, Like defending a narrative, a story of me. 

[00:53:13] Cody Ray: And so if somebody told me that something was not right, what I considered to be like, I've given everyone this perfect version of me, I'm succeeding in like, making everyone believe this. And then if somebody is like, you look like an idiot there, I'm like, My whole story is broken. And now my brain is trying to like, somehow it's like, so that back together and, you know, make it okay. And like, I think that caused so much misery me. 

[00:53:34] I don't know if that tracks with you or the listeners, but that I feel like defending that story also causes so much of like a brittle relationship. Especially if most of the story is you lying to yourself. Yeah. Well, not a lot of people do exactly what you're talking about. And, and I think with everyone, there's some truth to it. 

[00:53:52] Brandon: And some not truth, maybe some things that there's like who you want to be, and there's who you are. And there are good things to who you are, but also like who you want to be is usually better. So you like to think of yourself that way, but if you're really honest with yourself, you're like, okay, I have some shortcomings. On on this, in this story, right? Um, but it's getting to that point. 

[00:54:11] And I would say there are many people who don't get to that point yet within self acceptance is saying I'm actually all of it, right. Exactly and I can only be all of it. And then, then you start to go like, oh, well then what. Like, what do I want to be? Like, it's not like I need to be this to be okay. 

[00:54:27] Cody Ray: Or I can't be this or I'm not. Okay. You know, you're just kinda like, yeah, it's all there. Yeah. But one thing with, and also with Josiah is like his. He makes a conscious effort now. And I've noticed this, I mean, I say recently, I mean, it's been years, but he makes a conscious effort to tell you exactly. Like the positive things that he thinks about you and yeah. 

[00:54:52] Brandon: And that makes like, It makes you, it makes your self-acceptance better. And also like, it makes you aware of exactly what you guys are talking about, where I know that he sees me and I know that we're always good in like he, so if he does say something negative, Like he's way more apt to say something positive. 

[00:55:12] Right. So if he's saying this something negative, I should probably take it seriously. And I should probably really think about it. Um, so he's done a great job of that. Thanks. That's. And it's something that I need to do better at. So he kind of like reminds me sometimes, like, he'll say something I'm like, yeah, I need to start doing that more with people, not just him, but people in general who I'm close to. Um, so that's, you know, that's something that he's, so really what you're saying. Is he still giving off that vibe that he knows everything, but it's now guru status. Yeah. That's so funny. I love where you went with that. I was literally going to bring up like, The same point, but differently. Earlier you mentioned that, uh, that Josiah. Like made you want to be a better Christian. 

[00:55:54] Cody Ray: Yeah. And I think it's really wonderful that to me, like always. I think about my parents are still very religious and I know that their, their mentality is like, I'm crazy for thinking the way I do. I know all my family thinks I'm crazy. Right. But realizing that like the beauty and the, like the ethical and moral parts of Christianity has transcended, like you, you two as humans where like, he's still encouraging you to find the best parts of yourself and vice versa, like the same way that when y'all were teenagers, which is awesome. 

[00:56:26] Yeah. More genuine place. You put it very differently. 

[00:56:29] Cody: But 

[00:56:32] the roles have not changed. It's just maybe hopefully coming from a better place. Yeah. 

[00:56:37] RODECaster Pro II Main Multitrack: Or maybe it was coming from the best place, all along. I mean, I think that that's true. Somebody get Josiah. 

[00:56:46] Cody: He just tied the two friends episodes together. They said that other one that we were just talking about. Ah, dang. 

[00:56:53] It was meta. It's called a call back. Yeah. Ever heard of it. 

The Value of Lifelong Friendships

[00:57:02] Josiah: Well, I got to say. This was. Uh, wonderful conversation and I'm so glad we did this. Yup. Not just because you guys said lots of nice things about that's exactly what it was. Actually, it was so nice to say, Hey. We're doing this again next week. 

[00:57:19] But no, I think that we. It can be hard to see ourselves from the outside. Um, and that's why friendships are one of the reasons why friendships are so important. Uh, especially for five to like live in our heads so much. Um, uh, like I said, with Brandon, like you've. And in a lot of ways in different points in my life, you've helped me stay grounded. Um, And so it's just, it is a great reminder of why. It's worth investing in friendships in general, but especially as fives because we can so easily neglect them and you prioritize them. Um, but I feel like my heart is full. 

[00:58:01] I feel like so energized and so full of life, just sitting in this room with all of you and having this conversation. Uh, and so thank you for being here and being a part of this really appreciate you guys. 

[00:58:13] You can respond. Oh, I love you to say. 

[00:58:18] Yes. Dennis master. 

[00:58:21] Brandon: All right. Okay. How do I get to stage four guru? 

[00:58:26] Josiah: I hate you guys.