Ep 52: Getting Older

[00:00:00] So Cody? Yes. How old are you? I'm 38. How old do you feel? Uh, like, probably like 31. What? Yeah. You feel younger? Yeah. Oh, that's not my experience at all. That's, well, my body feels older, but my mind feels younger. Like in my, my, my inner self, I, there was a point where I just, I felt like I just kind of stopped aging and Okay.

[00:00:37] Now every time I say my age out loud, I'm like, what? There's a part of me that's like, God, I'm old.

[00:01:19] What are we even talking about? We're talking about getting older. Yeah. Aging. Yeah. 

[00:01:25] So, you know, my dad warned me my entire life. Okay. Growing up that. You get to be. He, he always said, I'm pretty sure his was, I want to say his was 40.

[00:01:40] No, I think it was, it was like he said, you get to 30, somewhere between 30 and 35. Mm-hmm. And in his experience, your brain just stops aging. You, you stop aging yourself in your own mind, like, huh. Okay. Because he would do stuff. I remember one time he broke his arm jumping off of a trampoline on accident.

[00:01:58] 'cause he was trying to do back, he was doing back flips over and over and over again. Keep in mind, at this point I was. He would've been about my age, but he was in pretty good shape. Younger, you know, he is an athlete. His whole, you know, it's how he is. He was like my brother, my brother's a big athlete.

[00:02:10] And um, he was in back lips over and over and over again on trampoline. And I was out there watching him. I was pretty young. That's probably like seven or something. He jumps off, breaks his arm because he was going, and then one time his body just didn't do what he wanted to and it just went woo and jumped off.

[00:02:26] And so he broke his arm and like, and he, I remember he told me then, and he was just like, you're not, I always think that I'm younger than I am. Like I always think I can do more. And he did that for a long time. He would hurt himself. Getting out and like playing sports with us or whatever, because he, in his mind, he was still like 32 and he could do all these things.

[00:02:43] Mm-hmm. And, and then he can't. 

[00:02:44] And I feel like I, over and over again, I think about this all the time, how, like I have that exact same experience now. I feel like I'm at that point now where my body is aging faster than my like inner ages. Mm. And then I think there's like, there's always like tests online you can take, it's like what's your inner age versus your real age, you know?

[00:03:02] Yeah. And I think there's some, there's some truth to that a little bit because it, it now differs. I now feel that separation where it's like, why is my, I went to the doctor, I was like, why is my knee hurting all the time? Like, it always hurts and I can't figure it out. I've taken, like, tried to take medicine, I've tried to take it easy.

[00:03:18] I must have heard it. And she does this whole like exam, moving it around. And yeah, she's like, well, you got full range of motion. Is there anything that you do a lot on? Just like one side. And I was like, well, I drive stick. I've done that my whole adult life. And she goes, oh yeah, you have early on site art, arthritis in your knee.

[00:03:38] And she was like, you know, I can confirm that with an X-ray, but I'm just telling you like that, or an MRI or whatever. She's like, that's what you have. And I was like, she's like, you're at that age. And I was like, I am that age. I'm at that age. And then I remember like that, uh, that like, you know, uh, I saw the other day that all the small things from Blink 180 2 is now in the oldies section of Spotify.

[00:04:00] Oh my God. And I was like, oh yeah, I guess I am that age. Oh, no, don't tell me that. Yeah. 

[00:04:07] So, um, I'm, I find things constantly, my body these days is reminding me more often than not that like. You know, I just don't bounce back the way that I used to when I hurt myself. It's a lot harder to get in shape.

[00:04:19] Mm-hmm. I used to be able to just shed pounds and get back in shape when I was way younger and I could just go to the gym for six months and then I was like back to where I wanted to be and it was like, oh, okay, cool. Now I'll have to go for another six months. And that's probably why I'm in the position I'm in now, where I need to be in more better shape now and I can't get there.

[00:04:34] But yeah, I don't know. It's just like a, there's a weird rift in my Yeah. And the thing is, we're not that old. I know. We're not, I know that old. I know. Like objectively, like we haven't even hit the halfway mark. Right. And so I know, but I think about maybe, maybe you have.

[00:04:55] Yeah, we don't know. I mean, I might dive in. I'm 60. I don't know. I might be like over two thirds of the way there. You're already over the hill. Yeah. I don't even know. Halfway down the other side. God, this got real dark, real fast. It did. I know When you said over the hill, I didn't actually, you know what, people say that all the time.

[00:05:14] Oh, you're over the hill. But then when you said halfway down the other side, that was where you like twisted the knife. I was like, oh, that one hurt.

[00:05:24] But yeah, we're not that old. Yeah. And there's, and and I keep telling myself that when we go to the gym together and I'm like okay, you can bounce back. Cody, you got this. Like, there's still room to grow. There's still, you can still like be strong. And I, when I think the two, that kind of adds another layer to doing things like getting in, in shape.

[00:05:41] 'cause now I feel like it's a, like a survival, like necessity. Yeah. 'cause I don't want to be. Getting old and, and not be able to do things anymore. Mm-hmm. I don't want that control and that autonomy to be taken away from me by my own accord. You know, if it's one thing to get, get in a car accident or whatever, you know, and you're like, your life's changed, but like, if I end up just being like immobile because I was too like fucking lazy to get off the couch.

[00:06:07] Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, and so I think that's been a huge part of it for me where, um, before it was hard to talk me into, talk myself into being consistent with activities and now I'm like constantly trying to find ways to be more active, like doing things like pickleball. I realized I really love playing pickleball, so it's like if I can just find somebody, you know, a group of people who wants to do it at least once a week, I would show up to that without hesitation because I really want to like, I love playing and it's a lot of fun and I, you burn so many calories, so it's like, it does, I burn twice the calories playing like an hour of pickleball then I do for, I could be like many hours at the gym.

[00:06:45] So. I'd feel like, oh, that's the way to go if you wanna just shed the weight first, you know? And, um, so, you know, I don't know, there's just, it's, it's really weird. It's, it's, uh, it's definitely like, it, it is more existential, I guess, in a way. Um, wanting to do things like being in shape. 'cause like all of a sudden, like, I might not be that old, but I'm old enough to start thinking about getting older.

[00:07:04] Yeah. And that's something that you just don't do when you're younger. You don't think about getting older. You wish you were older. And then, and you know, it's like you always hear those, the stupid that everybody says that don't, don't wish your life away, you know? Mm-hmm. It'll go by so fast when you're old, you'll be wishing that you didn't do that, you know?

[00:07:19] And it's like, damn it, they were all right. Everything they said was right. Because I think about it all the time now. It's like, God, if I only knew how I would feel now when I was like. 16, I would've, I would like to think that I would've made very different decisions and would've expedited a lot of the things that I wanted to do in life and would've poured more inform and, and attention into them.

[00:07:39] And if I've learned all of this just at the middle age, I know that I'm gonna feel even different 20 years from now looking back at, you know? Right. It's just crazy. 

[00:07:53] What's something that scares you about getting older? Oof. I think I'm, I'm definitely, I've, I've talked many times about death, anxiety in general.

[00:08:00] I'm definitely not looking forward to the process of losing my parents. That's something that I don't think that people prepare. There's no way to really prepare you for that, I don't think. And like, you don't think about it until it's like, it's a, it's a real possibility, you know? And I think with all of, like my parents starting to show.

[00:08:20] You know, a lot of health, health things are going through new health things. And, you know, it's definitely, especially with my dad. And so it's just like, there's things going on that I definitely feel like it's crossed my mind more often that it's like, there's gonna come a day where I, you know, I won't have him here anymore.

[00:08:36] And that's gonna be really weird. And, you know, it's like, I don't like thinking about it. I, I am a hundred percent terrified of it. And to make it worse, like my mom talks to me on a regular basis about how weird it is to not have your family, your parents with you anymore. And she feels that way at her age, in her sixties, and she was like, I hate that I don't have my mom to call when things happen and I wanna talk to her.

[00:08:58] And I'm like, oh God. Like don't, don't we gotta stop talking about this conversation, mom. I can't keep talking about this, you know? And so, especially now, 'cause like I have a great relationship with my mom. I call her, we talk almost every day. And so like, there's gonna come a time in my life where that won't happen anymore, and I won't, won't be able to.

[00:09:15] And I wish that I could. And I think that there's, you know, there's a lot of things in life that I guess will bring me back to that man. Like, you know, you, you don't miss it until it's gone. Or, you know, I think a huge part of aging is just loss. And the older you get, the more of it there is. And loss of aspects of your own life, loss of other lives, you know, loss of times in your life that maybe you really enjoyed or didn't enjoy.

[00:09:41] Like everything just moves faster and is, seems more and more finite the older you get. And I think that's probably the most terrifying thing. That, and also being. Yeah, being a mind trapped in a body that no longer wants to function, that's just failing you. And I think that's something that's also a huge fear.

[00:10:00] And like every time my body starts failing me now, just little hints of like, what's to come, I think. And it's like nobody, like, don't do this to me. Like speaking of, you just were complaining about how your knee hurt from crossing your legs. The whole last episode we recorded and now you crossed your leg again.

[00:10:17] What's my other leg? But it is the leg that has the arthritis, so maybe I should not. Well, I wanted to get a footstool, but you said everybody on the video would see it and it would look weird. And we don't even release these videos. I pick comfort over quality. I am a self preservation five. Like you said, you're over the, and halfway down the other edge according to you.

[00:10:42] Oh man. Okay. Yeah. So I. That, that terrifies me. I don't know. So, well, we really got serious really fast at this point. We conversation. We did. And it's weird because on one hand, like I can objectively think about what it's like to, to, to get older and the potential things that come with that. Mm. And at the same time, there's still a part of me that's like, but that won't happen to me.

[00:11:09] Oh yeah. You know? Sure. Oh no. Yeah, for sure. It doesn't really like some, some things like, I, it's just hard to conceptualize. So there, like I don't live my life in fear of getting older. Like I don't have any, at least at this point in my life, I don't have any like, really strong fears. But there are things that when I think about getting older, that I do not want to happen.

[00:11:34] Sure. And one of those is. Like significantly losing my cognitive function. Oh yeah, for sure. That I think is a five would scare me more than, than most things because, you know, so much of our identities are wrapped up in our intellect and our ability to process things mentally and well. And maybe that's freeing.

[00:11:55] I don't know. Like, well, hey, this is a great, this is a great opportunity to do a little would you rather? Oh god. Okay. So would you rather, 'cause like we literally just said the exact same fear but from the opposite direction. Mm-hmm. Would you rather have full cognitive function but be in a body that can't do what you want it to, maybe can't communicate, even be stuck in a body where you have all this intellect but you can't do anything with it?

[00:12:17] Or be a brain that is losing cognitive function in a body that doesn't know that it's dying yet? God. I thought when I was started this, it was gonna be funny, but it's not, it's not this terrible, it's so dark. Uh, I probably would choose the losing cog cognitive function because then I wouldn't have the awareness Right.

[00:12:39] To really, you know, know what's going on. That's, that's me. I would pick that one too. Getting older, everybody. So where do we go from here? We jumped right to the grave in this conversation really fast. Um, we did like, okay, so maybe go, going back to what you were talking about earlier, thinking about when, when we were young.

[00:12:59] Yeah. I, I just always, I've always just been so independent that for me it wasn't. Like, I wasn't necessarily looking forward to getting older. I was looking forward to less and less people telling me what to do or trying to tell me what to do. Mm-hmm. At least the way I viewed it. Sure, yeah. You know, autonomy.

[00:13:21] Yeah. Yeah. And like I remember, I, I thought that my, my perception of what college would be like mm. Was that I, it didn't matter if I showed up for class, all I had to do was like, you know, write my papers and, and take the tests and I'd pass all my classes. And then I got to college and it was like 13th grade and it, it was nothing like I expected.

[00:13:48] And a huge disappointment in that regard. But that was, that's always like when I was younger, I just remember like that's what I was looking for was more freedom to make choices for myself. Mm-hmm. Um, and. And I think that that's been one of the advantages too. Like even in your twenties as you're, you have certain types of freedom.

[00:14:10] You also are limited often by resources. And so you, you can't do a lot of the things that you want to do. And then, and then, you know, when you're in my phase of life where you have small kids, and you might have the means now, but you know, you're, you're limited by, you know, you went straight from college to having a wife and then three children.

[00:14:32] Well, yes. So like that's true. You never, you never really had full individualist individual autonomy in a way. Right, right. And so, and I've realized too, so this actually brings up the phase that I found myself in now because I, I, I realized that I still was having this. Looking ahead of like, when I get to this phase of life, I will have the freedom to finally do all the things that I want to do.

[00:14:57] Yeah. Like when I, and I'm like looking forward to like retirement. Mm-hmm. Like, so I think that's part of the reason why the idea of getting older historically hadn't bothered me that much. Because I was looking ahead of like, when I get to a certain age, I have no responsibility. I have no expectations of me.

[00:15:13] You know, I can just be and do whatever I want to do and follow whatever rabbit hole I wanna follow. And the reality is, I don't think life's ever going to be that way. And that's one of the things that like, like fully, because yeah, like I come, I keep coming back to this definition of freedom that I that I came up with a couple of years ago, which is.

[00:15:35] Freedom is the degree to which you can choose your own trade-offs. Hmm. Yeah. Okay. And, and so there's always going to be that trade off conversation. Like you're never always like fully going to just be able to do whatever you want. Like there are always going to be trade-offs, but having the, the autonomy to get to pick your offs.

[00:15:54] Yeah. Rather than having life picked them for you Yeah. Rather than having those picked on, like put on you. Mm-hmm. And, and that process is like taking me through, you know, if you're, that also comes with responsibility and awareness and, and so you have to go through this process then of, well, who am I and what do I want?

[00:16:18] And, and that's what has brought me to where I am now, which is I realized a few months ago. 

[00:16:30] I'm in a midlife crisis. Yeah. And it's weird because it's not like I, I, there's all the stereotypes around it Sure. That I don't like, and but there's, there's like truths in this. And so obviously when I realized this, I started researching what it means to be in a midlife crisis to try to understand it better naturally.

[00:16:49] Yeah. And I realized that there are, you know, one of the things about, and, and from my understanding, like it, it looks different for men and women and, or, or it can look very different and, but like, just specifically speaking from my own experience typically to be successful, you know, in, in life, in a career and things like that, you, you've got you've got to have some ability to delay gratification.

[00:17:20] Mm. It's like, you know, sacrificing the now for, you know, for what you're, you're going for in the future. And and my, a lot of my life has been stages of that. And it was, you know, in my teens and early twenties, it was delayed gratification for God. Right. So, yeah, sure. Because, you know, I was, I, while everybody else was partying and everybody else was doing their, you know, self-exploration, I was you know, I was trying to do the right thing.

[00:17:51] I was trying to figure out what the, the optimal path for me was and yeah. And, but I was doing it all mainly in my head. I wasn't actually experiencing anything. Right. And so I wasn't actually figuring it out. Then, and then, you know, I got married and my, all of my, especially my religious views on what it meant to be a, a quote unquote good husband, then, you know, it was all about delaying my own gratification or, you know, the things that I want in order to make my wife happy.

[00:18:21] And then it was like, career and it's just always this, and then it was kids, right? And this is always the next thing. And then yeah, you get to this phase of life usually in your late thirties, early forties, where real things start happening, like your parents get sick. Mm-hmm. Or you know, like for me, I, I almost lost my dad in 2016.

[00:18:47] Yeah. Um, and so that was actually my early thirties. Yeah. And, and that just shifted some things for me. And then we, we lost Amy's mom a couple of years ago, three years ago now. And, um. Just seeing, and then like my, my parents have also had health issues and and it really starts to crystallize some things for you mm-hmm.

[00:19:15] About your parents, but also about yourself. And, and one of the things I realized is like if you just continually delay gratification, eventually you're not delaying it, you're just foregoing it all together. Right. And, and so I'm like in this point of, okay, well if that's the case, like, am I okay with that?

[00:19:36] Hmm. You know, like that's the first question and, and I'm not, so then what does it actually mean to be intentional about. Building, designing the life that I actually want and you know, rather than what I think is, is expected of me or, or what I'm think I'm supposed to want or what is okay with the other people around me.

[00:19:57] And that's, that's really, really hard because the first step was, you know, this, this really broke through for me in 2023. Go back to the convenience versus connection episode where I tell that whole story. Yeah. I, you know, in that was the first time I, I sort of like broke that whole reality distortion field that I had and, and started facing all of my trauma that I had been running from and reconnecting with myself like who I really am kind of at my core.

[00:20:29] And it's been this journey over the last couple years to do that. But in doing that, realizing like that's so many of the choices that I made. We're like, we're not aligned at all with who I actually am and what it is I actually want. And so I started asking this question like, who am I? Like what, what is it I do want?

[00:20:48] Right. And that is so much harder to do at 38 than it is 18. Oh, for sure. You know, there's, so there's, it feels like there's so much more at stake. Yeah. And it's been this process of how do I be fully honest with myself and with my wife and the people around me about, you know, what it is that I want.

[00:21:19] And, and at the same time, like, how do I do that without blowing my whole life up? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, and I don't have a good answer for that. Yeah. Other than at the end of the day. Despite the chaos and the, the potential for destruction I'm much better off having those honest conversations than not having them.

[00:21:45] Definitely. Yeah. Um, because there was a lot of things that I realized that I was, I had a lot of anxiety under the surface that was coming from this because I just always felt like I couldn't be me. Mm-hmm. Like it wasn't o Okay to be fully me. And you can't live like that. No. And, and I had been living like that for so long and, and it was mostly self-inflicted.

[00:22:08] Yeah. But as it was, it was self-inflicted based on my perception and response to things, different things that had happened to me in my life. Yeah. Um, okay. And, and so there, there was an external, you know, external catalyst for certain things, but it was my own reaction to that and, and the stories I, I told myself around those things that that shaped a lot of this.

[00:22:31] But you know, but the, the challenge is like I've, I've built a life on that foundation. Mm. And like, you, you can't really change the foundation without risking the whole house coming down. And that's what, you know, at, at a high level. That's what I've been going through the last few months. Yeah. And it has been brutal.

[00:22:54] Yeah. And, and also really, really good because the place that I'm at now is just so much better than the place I was, you know, a few months ago. So, yeah. 

[00:23:08] Well, and I think too, we both share that, that component of like. I, I often, if I let myself spiral too much, I can get really upset about how much time I felt like I wasted in like, the religious chapter of my life.

[00:23:24] Mm. And, and feeling like I was succumbing to, you know, the conditioning that you get from, from being in that space. And, and I get that, like I, I know a lot of our listeners are still, you know, kind of still kind of subscribed to that faith and, and that belief system. And maybe you get where I'm coming from.

[00:23:45] Maybe you don't, but like, I think that there's, there's a lot that happens in that whole, in that world that like, I felt like I was such a different. I was never myself. I didn't know who I was. Mm. So much so that I felt like, you know, so many people would say that I was so hard to read and I like, I was like, it's not 'cause I'm hiding anything.

[00:24:06] It's 'cause there's nothing in there. Like, you know, I'm just a shell just operating through life and I didn't know, I didn't know anything about myself. And when you're 18, it's so easy to try to like say you think you have no reference point for time when you're in your teenage years. Because I feel like time, because you don't have those years before you time stretches out so far.

[00:24:29] Yeah. And you think you have so much time. And I was literally thinking of the day, like it was 20 years ago, I was 18. Mm. 20 whole years have gone by and I feel like I'm just now starting to do the things that I was wanting to do when I was 18. Mm-hmm. Like that's, that, that, that is what I'm, I'm most upset about with myself, I think because.

[00:24:51] I, and maybe I, I mean, you know, I couldn't have gotten there before Now. It took me going through life. Yeah. I made a lot of really stupid decisions when I was in my twenties. But, you know, going back to what you were saying about the autonomy and, you know, being independent and all that, I think you know, I did get a, a little taste of that when I lived in Nashville for that year.

[00:25:11] And I realized very quickly that I'm actually no good alone. Um-huh And, and, uh, all I do is make bad decisions, or at least at that point in my life, I just imploded, you know? Yeah. And so it was just, I, I was creating such a, a mess and chaos in my life, just having an aimless existence. I had no re, I had no point that I was trying to head towards.

[00:25:33] I was just trying to exist and going through a divorce, and it was, it was a mess. And so, um, I think that. Coming back. I, yeah, sure. I maybe, I feel like, you know, I didn't really get that extended amount of time, but like, you know, I, because I mean, Madison and I got together not long after that when I came back, and then we've just been together ever since.

[00:25:55] But, you know, I think that there's, it's a different point in my life where now where I don't feel like I have necessarily missed out on those things. But it's, it's more of just like, I just investing in all, all of my resources, all my time and attention and things that ended up not mattering at all and like, didn't go anywhere.

[00:26:14] And it wasn't even the things I wanted to do. 'cause I didn't know myself yet. So I didn't know what I wanted to do. All, all I had ever done. Like I was on my way when I was a teenager to really wanting to just figure out how to play music full time. The problem is, is that I didn't know what that meant or what it looked like.

[00:26:30] The only reference warrant you have is famous people doing famous things. Right, right. That's not the actual, that's not realistic place to try to land, try to be like, you know? And I just think that I I, I didn't, I didn't have a realistic thing vision for that. And then somewhere in there religion hijacked my attention and I just diverted all of that into, into that instead because maybe I felt like that was a more tangible thing.

[00:26:56] And I was, it, you know, I grew up in the church, so it was a really, um, it was a safe, safe thing. It was, it was a safe decision, you know? Mm-hmm. It was, uh, there was no risk in it for me. I knew that being in churches, it's like. I don't want to, I'm not, I don't mean this to sound like arrogant, but it was like big fish, small pond, right?

[00:27:14] Like, you know, I'd worked my entire life to be a musician. I knew I was better than 95% of the people in churches. So like, it was just an easy thing to do. And I knew I wasn't gonna be challenged in that way. And I could be, I could be the person that knew everything, you know? And I went to seminary and I did the whole thing like.

[00:27:30] And then I realized so quickly that none of it matters. And then I really had that, that that experience when I left the church and realized that no one in the world looks at the skillset that you learn in church's value is with any value or worth. And so you get out into the real world and you're like, I have nothing.

[00:27:47] And I just spent all this time and now I don't have anything. And then I don't even believe in the God that I was living for doing it all for, so literally I felt like I had nothing at all, and I just wasted all of my time and I was so mad. I spent a few years just being mad about it, I think. Yeah. You know, and, and so I remember those years for you.

[00:28:06] Yeah. And somehow of that carried over into like Nashville, like when I was in Nashville, like all that time. And I mean, and there was a huge, all of that was a huge part of like, you know, my last marriage breaking up and all of that. I mean, it was all a part of that, but we all, we all came out of that space.

[00:28:21] And so, I think there was, it, it took most of the rest of my twenties getting over that and then, and some of my thirties and then the last decade of my life has been learning how to let life soften me rather than react to it and only become like harder and thicker and, and that's, that's been the huge, that's been the biggest lesson I've learned probably in my late thirties, is learning how to, you know, allow myself to soften to life rather than to harden in life and, and, and create that shell and that distance and that, 'cause it's really hard.

[00:28:57] It's, it's hard for me to wanna do that because now I do kind of start to know myself. I'm starting to learn and really get to know myself and, and, and liking myself, and forgiving myself, giving myself space to be myself in my life. And all of that feels very vulnerable and naked and raw and, yeah, it's almost like then you wanna protect that part of you and, and, and not risk in that way.

[00:29:19] And so, yeah, it's just hard. I don't know, man, that, but that's the work. Right, right. Yeah. I, I think quite often I think about the conversation that we had had in one of the episodes with Sam, where she talked about. One of the, one of the potential dangers for five getting older is that, you know, we can tend to lean into our, the competencies we build earlier in life.

[00:29:43] Oh yeah. And then not want to stray from those mm-hmm. Because that fear of incompetence. Yeah. And then but then when we get older, because we have not built that flexibility and that adaptability in, then we end up not not having the skill sets to like, live life in those years. Mm-hmm. And a lot of the skills that we should have been developing over the course of our life, we didn't.

[00:30:09] And then because we have built this rigidity, we we're, we, we don't pick those up later in life either. And so it's like, and we just become that curmudgeon and yeah, I think that, that, that's definitely a. Al always somewhere in the back of my head as I, when I think about getting older, is like, that's what I don't want.

[00:30:29] Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm much more the kind of five that would become that than you are, if that makes you feel any better. I agree. Like I don't, I don't see you becoming the old quiet curmudgeon me on the other hand for sure. Put me in like a small town in Europe and just let me like go get my coffee and read my newspaper by myself.

[00:32:34] Disappear into the evening. You'll see me at the bar. You know, it sounds, it sounds so lovely though. It does. I, you know, I told, I told Amy the other day, like, honestly my ideal morning is I have, I don't have to interact with anyone until like, at least noon, you know, like, it's kind of my life now. Well, I know, but like you, that's not realistic.

[00:32:58] It's not the same when you have, when you have kids. Of course not. Yeah. And so, um. I'm, I'm, but, but, but that's part of the conversations that we're having. Like what actually does, does that look like? Because bef because before I felt even guilty for feeling that way. Mm. And, and it's okay to recognize that, like that's just.

[00:33:22] That's appealing to me. Yeah. And, and that's okay. And like I require more solitude than most people, um, are probably okay with, you know, and like Yeah, definitely. And but it, it does, that's not a ref, that's not a defect in me. It's just that we're different. Yeah, exactly. And and, and there's a lot of that undoing of all those unconscious beliefs that had been, you know, I'd, I'd picked up decades ago Yeah.

[00:33:51] That we're still operating and it's just like going in with a flashlight and discovering them. Mm-hmm. And it's very it's just a, it's a grueling process. Yeah. But it's, it's definitely worth it because I am more and more feeling more alive, you know, feeling more like myself and, and like learning what it actually feels like to feel like myself and and, and that.

[00:34:14] That's very much worth it. 

[00:34:15] So as I'm getting older, like I'm looking into my forties and I'm thinking about, okay, what, what actually do I want that to look like? And I can go in with a lot more optimism and clarity than I would've had before because I would've been limited by all of these unconscious beliefs.

[00:34:42] Yeah. That about what was okay and what wasn't okay for me to want. And and so yeah, that's, that's where I'm at now. Yeah, definitely. It's, it's, uh, it's, it's definitely a challenging thing. I don't, it's, I, because like, you know, when I was in my twenties, you, I felt like everybody always tells you like your twenties are for like discovering yourself and experimenting and, and all of that.

[00:35:07] And I didn't do that for most of my twenties. But my thirties, everybody said, your thirties are amazing. And I would actually agree with that. I've, I've thoroughly enjoyed, I, I'm not all of my thirties have been great. Mm-hmm. But, but everything that came out of my thirties was such a different process of like, maybe in your twenties you kind of learn, learn about yourself.

[00:35:30] Like you learn to get to know yourself a little bit, but in your thirties it's like learning to appreciate and love yourself. And I think that that's, that's what, that's the theme that I would put on my thirties, was like learning how to love myself and forgive myself and, and like myself and, and not be so hard on myself.

[00:35:48] And I think that that's, that's, that's, that's, uh, the most valuable thing that I've actually maybe ever learned, um, because it affects everything else in my life. So what's your theme for going into your forties then? I don't know. I think, I don't know. I, I think, I think for me it's something along the lines of.

[00:36:06] You know, it was, it was getting to, to know myself better, getting to appreciate myself. And now it's like, alright, well how am I gonna show up in the world as that person? Mm, yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah, I would agree with that. 'cause yeah, 'cause now you wanna like become the next step of that, you know, whatever that next version of yourself is, that is just, even like, even more of who you are, I think is definitely, yeah.

[00:36:30] What does that look like in the world? And like, kinda like what I was saying earlier, like, the reason why I learned music was because I wanted to give more back to the community. I say that in another episode. Did I say that today? Or I don't, we've recorded two episodes. Just let's just be honest with the listeners.

[00:36:44] I don't know. But I think that the, you're, you're, you're bringing up an aspect of. Of just like humanness that I think fives want to ignore a lot. Yes. Which is that we are we are simultaneously a product of our own inner experience and also our relationship to others. Mm-hmm. Right? And so, yes, like we do the work to that self discovery to like really, um, understand and and, and know and appreciate who we are.

[00:37:17] And also we then have to go out into the world and have that reflected back to us by other people. Mm-hmm. And then that's a whole other layer of informing us. Hmm. You know, and so it's like, it's not just, it's not just who I am in this little isolated bubble, but it's who I am in relation to the people around me and in relation to like the impact that I wanna live on, leave on the world, you know?

[00:37:40] Yeah. And, and all of that. And I think that. It's really easy to want to stop sometimes. Yeah. And not take that next step. 'Cause we don't like to be seen. Yeah. But for me, I like what I've been feeling intuitively, especially in this last year, is that a lot, uh, a big part of the purpose of the work that I've been doing is so that I can show up that way mm-hmm.

[00:38:08] So that I can just step into the world in a completely different capacity than what I've done the rest of my life. Yeah. And a lot of, like, all the inner work has been like leading up to me being able to do that. Yeah. 

[00:38:21] And I feel like too, this is kind of a part of my, it's, I'm at a point in my life where I, I understand the importance of community more than I did before.

[00:38:28] Mm-hmm. Um, I always kind of thought of it as like. An accessory to life when it's actually like the core of what gives life. Like, not just meaning, but like gives life, life, like, I don't know. Yeah. It's like vitality. Yeah. It's 'cause it almost everything becomes kind of like static and the same and just neutral all the time.

[00:38:46] It's people that add all of that color to the kind of the black and white of what I feel like is what's inside of me. You know, it's like I've, yeah. My, my everything that in, in me is pretty black and white in terms of like Sure. In terms of picture or color, if you wanna look it that way. But also in terms of like comparisons with things, how I look at myself, how I look at other things, things can so easily.

[00:39:04] And then throw in autism in there of even more black and white, right? Like, it's hard, the, I don't live much in gray area and so I'm either like a hundred percent or nothing. And and that's, that's something where a community. It gives me that, that challenge to that mentality and that existence and, and, and does add that color in, in terms of like, unexpected scenarios and things you can't predict.

[00:39:28] You know? I think a lot of that is is what also just kind of. Gives, gives you those moments that, that you appreciate life. And maybe let's time slow down a little bit. Mm-hmm. 

[00:39:39] I don't know because I, you know, I feel like, you know, we always, it's easy to, we always say how fast time goes right? And it's time only goes fast when you're doing the same thing all the time.

[00:39:48] And like, because like when I was in Italy last, last fall, it I that I, you could've, I could've believed easily that I was there for two months, not 10 days, right? Because everything just stretched so far out. We were doing so much every day. And yet obviously there not, and there was so much novelty, so much novelty.

[00:40:04] But yeah, of course. But like, you know, even just, but we also had the time to just like, do different things. Go and sit at a coffee shop and read for a couple hours and like, no expectations. Everything slows down so much when you, when you have those moments, when you have that in your life. And obviously that's, and especially in the us impractical in many ways.

[00:40:22] But I think that we can still, you know, I still try to find those times for myself that to do things that. Or just out of what all I'm always doing. I mean, these days reading is one of those things. Yeah. I don't just sit and read just to read. Yep. You know, but whenever I do sit down with some coffee and just sit in, you know, my corner and read for a while to take an hour even, and I just feel like my entire day stretched out further just from doing that one thing.

[00:40:46] And then even more so if I. Force myself to get up early and do it, you know, that way. 'cause I just, I, I'm not a morning person. I've thought I said this many times. Yeah. But, um, getting up early. But the thing about is I hate waking up early. I love mornings. I just don't like waking up for them, you know?

[00:41:04] Yeah. 

[00:41:04] And so, but I'm starting to also get in that point in my life too, where staying up late doesn't feel as good as it used to. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, that's a part that's, that's been really hard for me lately. I actually enjoy, like, here's another thing of getting older, the mentality where I used to think that if I stay up late, I wanna sleep in late because that's how I'm gonna make up the time I've lost.

[00:41:25] Mm-hmm. But I've actually realized that the better way to do it is to wake up at the same time, no matter how late I go to bed and try to make it up the next night by going to bed earlier. 'cause that is healthier and makes you feel better. Mm-hmm. Just things you think about, like I, you know, of course.

[00:41:38] And we gotta go, like, I'm a self-preservation five, so I'm constantly thinking about how to feel the best I possibly can at all times. Yeah. And I don't wanna sacrifice that in any way. And so that's, that's, that's a hard thing for me. That's a lot. That's, that's how I tend to like, try to hoard resources in that way is like by just, if I, if I take it away from myself, then I want to like give it back to myself immediately in the next morning.

[00:42:01] Like, I don't want to like push it to the next night because that's hard and I don't like mornings, you know? Yeah. But learning how to take care of myself differently now than I used to before is a huge thing that and I, and I'm looking forward to that in my forties as well, that I want. I want the next chapter of my life to be just taking care of myself better than I have because I've been so bad at it my entire life.

[00:42:24] Yeah. Yeah. Same kinda along similar lines. 

[00:42:36] One of the things too that just, it gives me anxiety thinking about going into the next decade or two Yeah. Is the idea of taking care of aging parents. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, I am not a natural caretaker. No, definitely not at all either. And like even to the point where like, I think about this really often and, and just, you know, thinking out into the future and like, what's going, what's going to be expected of me over the next decade?

[00:43:09] Right. That usually how I end up framing it. Sure. Right. And I'm thinking about like. It, it's bad, but, you know, ju judging certain people's decisions Oh. Because I know that they're, I know exactly where those decisions are going to place them. Yeah. And because they're family, like, there's gonna to be some expectation that I'm going to need to help with that.

[00:43:33] Yep. And, and I just, like, I hate, I, I hate that. I hate that. You know, that one, I, I have that mindset. Yeah. Because it, like, I, I'm beat myself up for that a lot. I feel guilty about that. And at the same time, like, I can't not think that way. Mm-hmm. Like, and just because I, I see things like, I see things and I automat automatically, like, like see the re repercussions the way that that plays out.

[00:44:04] And I'm like, I hope it doesn't play out this way, but. You know, it's probably going to, and I'm usually right about that kind of stuff. And then it's like, yeah, same. I totally get that. And, and then, and so then it's hard to like not have resentment for some things too, because it's like, do you not see how the decisions you're making are gonna be infecting the people around you?

[00:44:23] Mm. But you know, I, I can't control that, you know, and I also probably can't even influence it. And so it's like, yeah, what do you do with that? You know? Yeah. I mean, yeah, my parents definitely have certain decisions and behaviors that I'm like, why, why are you doing like, you know, better? Like you're mm-hmm.

[00:44:41] And in it weird too, like in that regard too, I'm, I don't know if you're feeling this way, but I feel this way lately where it's like. That dynamic is starting to switch between like child and parent. Mm. Where it's like, it almost feels flopped. I feel like I'm telling my parents what to do a lot and like, or like reprimanding them for their decisions or like, you know, it's like Yeah.

[00:45:00] Doing, I, I, I feel like I'm having, I'm the one, I'm the responsible one in the conversation trying to impart wisdom or something to my parents about the decisions they're making. Yeah. And they're the ones that are being stubborn and being like, you can't tell me what to do. Which is true. It's true. I can't tell them what to do, except for I do feel a certain level of investment.

[00:45:20] Yeah. Because it's gonna come back to me. Yeah. Like one way or another. It all, it'll all affect us. Whether they make decisions that end up killing them, like that also affects me greatly. And I always, you know, I tell, you know, there's different, I won't get into the behaviors, it's their things, but, you know, one of my parents will do something and I'm like, and it's like, that's directly against your own health, like, and.

[00:45:43] I don't want you to leave this earth with me mad at you forever. Like, I don't want, I don't want you to do that to me. You know? Yeah. Because it's hard to let that go and Yeah. I just, I don't know. It's, it's, it's a hard that I don't, no one can prepare you for that, as I was saying earlier, like, it's just, it's, and it's an ever-growing thing.

[00:46:02] It's like every new step, there's something else to be learned that I don't wanna learn. Like, I don't want to know these things. I don't want to have to go through these things. And yet we all do. Yeah. And there's no stopping that train. 

[00:46:15] Yeah.

[00:46:16] I watched this video recently that actually really gave me a lot of hope. Okay. Um, of just like what's possible because. It was this YouTuber lady and she, I, I, I guess she had paid for her parents who are in their nineties to, to have a fitness coach who specializes in fitness for seniors.

[00:46:42] And so they, wow. They like, uh, I think she and her siblings, um, helped them set up like a home gym, like a legit home gym, like in their garage or something. Wow. And like her mom all hunched over with a walker, can't walk without it, like, and you know, her dad's having all kinds of problems and they started at the beginning of this year, so it's July now.

[00:47:03] And, uh, they started in January and um, I think I watched like the, the five month update from like May or something. Yeah. And dude, it was. Awesome. Like the, the dad is like doing these squats and bench presses and like, with free weights, like Wow. Um, and the, the mom is, uh, like, she's walking for a few minutes at a time with no, like upright with no, uh, walker at all.

[00:47:29] She didn't think she'd ever be able to do that again. Wow. And it's like, it's just a good reminder that we have these. We have these like preconceptions about what it means to get older. Mm. And even at that level, like in your nineties, it's not too late, right. Like you can, you, you know, you can make changes, right.

[00:47:44] That have a material impact on your Yeah. Your quality of life. Yeah. At any point. Yeah. And challenge that progression that you think is right. Inevitable. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. I didn't, that's, that is wild. I didn't, I wouldn't have thought that 90-year-old bodies could bounce back like that.

[00:47:59] Yeah. Because a lot of times I feel like a hunch over, like, I'm always like, I'm, I always hunch and I'm like, I'm gonna be a hunchback. Like, I know I will, right. But I don't stop and like, I wanna sit up straight uhhuh. I've been trying to do that so much lately. So like, I've always thought of like, people who like are hunched over doing, you know, needing a walker.

[00:48:15] Like they had, that's permanent damage they did over many, many, many years. I didn't. I mean, that's interesting that it can be reversed. I mean, that's, that's definitely helpful for little 38-year-old me now. Yeah. Wanting to, I mean, obviously there's some things that can't be reversed obviously. Yeah. But I was just really encouraged by how much.

[00:48:31] How much of an impact that sort of thing can have even at that age. Yeah, definitely. That is, well, I mean, there's, there's always hope for us then no matter where we are in this life. Yeah. 

[00:50:03] I think one thing too that I, a big change that I've made, um, especially going into my forties, is just how I approach relationships.

[00:50:15] Hmm. Yeah. A lot more intentionality. So much more intentionality. Yeah. And and like I, I feel for the first time, I think probably since. My early twenties when I was in church a lot. I actually feel like I have community now. Hmm. And, and it's amazing. And, and I'm, and I'm building relationships and making friends and like I have actual friends and we actually like do things.

[00:50:42] Mm-hmm. And you and I actually do things. I know. You know, and it's like, that's not just the podcast. And so, um, but it, but that didn't happen by accident. No. Yeah. And, and a big part of it was realizing that like, you know, so much, I, I get so much energy in life from that. Mm-hmm. And. And when I don't have it is when I feel like I'm aging rapidly.

[00:51:06] Yeah. You know, but, but then having, having these kind of moments where we did, uh, we did the bro weekend last month where Brandon came down the staycation and we ran into an Airbnb in town and we just like hung out and we stayed up late watching TV and like we went out, we saw Modest Mouse, like it was so cool.

[00:51:27] I woke up like we woke up Saturday morning. Didn't even know that was a possibility. And it was just like a last minute show. 'cause they, they canceled Bonnaroo. Yeah. And we went and got to see Modest Mouse play in a, in a small venue. Yeah. Less than a thousand people. Oh my God. It was amazing. It was so good.

[00:51:40] I've never seen them before. I was, yeah. That was what a crazy day that was. And like, and yeah. And, and, and Brandon, the one that all listeners will know from the friendship episode if you listen to that, uh, or friends with fives, I guess the second one. And, and when we did that episode, you know, I, I, I edit it not that long ago when we released it.

[00:51:58] And so, going back and listening to it just as, just kind of a side note here, is I, I forgot how much I en I enjoyed his, like, company and his presence, I guess. Yeah. And, and, and I, you wouldn't. He's such a, he's a, he's, he's a seven, right? He is a seven with a pretty strong eight wing, I think. Right. So it's on paper.

[00:52:18] Somebody I should hate.

[00:52:23] I do not get along with sevens because sevens usually represent everything I hate about myself. Ah, okay. And I think that's part of it. Like the flightiness, there's always like this certain level of like bouncing all over the place. Never really, nothing ever means a lot to the, I don't know, it's just there's some vibe with seven Brendan's definitely not that way though.

[00:52:40] He's not, I mean, yeah, he is a very different kind of seven and, and, and much healthier in that way. Very self-aware and, and just a deep thinker. I just don't ever feel like. Yeah. I feel like I, I talk in circles with sevens a lot, and I didn't feel that way with him, and then we got to hang out and I was, I realized that was the most I'd ever hung out with him.

[00:52:57] Concentrated. Yeah. And so it was actually, yeah, it was really nice. And it was fun. Yeah. We get, we did so much, we hung out in my pool one day. Yeah. You know, it was just like, and I realized, yeah, that weekend we only were together for like a day and a half. Yeah. Collectively really. But it felt like a lot longer.

[00:53:12] And it's definitely like that my, I got, you know, we've referenced like my bachelor trip weekend or a week rather almost. And yeah, it's, it's, um, it's community is, I think, holds so much value in my life that I didn't realize. And I do approach relationships differently. I also approach relationships differently.

[00:53:31] Another aspect of that is approaching relationships differently based on how you feel about yourself. Hmm. I, I feel like I've allowed a lot of people to be in my life and treat me. Various ways that I wasn't ever okay with, but didn't really know how to stand up for myself. And I think a lot of that was because I didn't know myself well enough to even know what, what I didn't like or like, or maybe I didn't think that I, I didn't value myself enough to know and even know what kind of effect that was having on me.

[00:53:56] And so I think there's certain, like, you know, there's certain behaviors and certain things that I just don't, and ways that people make me feel that I don't wanna put up with as easily as I used to. And I think that's definitely been a harder transition in life because it's hard for me to, it's, it's in, it's hard enough for me to intentionally want to like intentionally be in somebody's life and have them be in my life.

[00:54:18] It's even harder to intentionally. Draw those lines and not let certain aspects of, of someone's behavior be in my life either. And I think that that's, that's something that I didn't learn earlier in my life at all. And I'm definitely a lot more like keenly aware at, at this point in my life too. And that's, that's kind of an interesting aspect that I wouldn't have thought about until now.

[00:54:39] Yeah. So what's something that you look forward to about getting older? Hmm. I've really enjoyed, I. How the older I get, the less fucks I give. Yeah, that's so true. You know, like, yeah, I have this, I have this gigantic hat that I wear to the, to the pool and to the beach for that matter. And I have these ugly ass pit vipers that cover my whole face.

[00:55:08] Yeah, you do. And I wear them only in the pool. And I don't give a shit what anybody thinks about it because it, because it's nice and my eyes can relax and I don't, I don't have the sun in my eyes and, you know, and just like, I don't have to worry about my neck getting burnt. Like I think about those things and it's just the way that I want to do.

[00:55:23] And then I just, you know, drink a really strong THC drink, get my little noodle out there and I just float on it. And like, and the thing about it is like, I'll be talking with people in the pool and then I just kind of float off and then people, and then I, I, I can see them and people being like, is Cody okay?

[00:55:39] 'cause you can't see my eyes, right? I'm literally just like, arms up. Just like still faced. And they'll be, and she'll be like, yeah. And she's like, is he asleep or something? And then Madison will be like, nah, he's fine. And then she'll wave and then I'll wave back. You know, I kind of want more of that in my life as I get older.

[00:55:53] Um, and, uh, I do, I, I don't think I was ever excited about getting older until now because I didn't have a whole, this is gonna sound kind of sad saying it out loud, but I don't know another way to say that. I didn't have a lot going for me. Really. I was a loser. So, you know, I didn't have a lot going. It was hard for me to project ahead what my life could look like.

[00:56:18] Sure. When I didn't have a solid career, I didn't, I wasn't making any money. I was living paycheck to paycheck. I'm still living paycheck to paycheck. But the difference is. I now have a plan for how not to live paycheck to paycheck. I'm almost, I'm, I'm closer to being outta death than I've ever been, you know?

[00:56:31] Cool. It's like there's so many things. I can see a light at the end of the tunnel for the first time, and then I can now imagine a life beyond the tunnel, beyond the light, right? Like beyond rec, getting to the end of this, you know, phase of my life where I'm basically paying, paying off all of my bad decisions and, or in all of my just hard decisions where I was poor and put things on credit card, but bills on credit cards, you know, it's like even living in Nashville, I didn't make enough to live there.

[00:56:59] So I have that, that year. Put me in a lot of debt that I just recently paid off, and I think that. Seeing and also like seeing some of the world put a different perspective in getting older, because I realized that life doesn't just have to be what it is here in the us. Like maybe there's a time, maybe there's an opportunity in the future where I could just move, we could move out of the us and, and I would love to do that more now than ever.

[00:57:24] And and seeing people live their life in other countries, the way that the older people live, younger people live. And, and that's, that's also taught me a lot about how I would like for my life to look when I'm older. And I think that some, you know, I think that.

[00:57:42] It's, it's hard for me to really imagine what getting older looks like for me. You know, I don't know what to, so I don't really know beyond that, what to look forward to really, I guess. I think that knowing that some of how my life will be when I'm older is in my control right now is comforting to some degree and is, like I said, an encouragement to want to be in better shape and keep moving and be more, um, active because my life when I'm older will also be more active if I do that.

[00:58:11] And yeah. And I can continue to do the things that I love, hopefully. And, um, you know, my, my expectations on life have changed so much. You know, like I was, I was mentioning earlier about. You know, having too lofty of goals to be a musician, right? And just like these, these, this, sure it happens for some people, but most people it doesn't.

[00:58:30] And I think a better, I realized at some point in my life, mostly in my thirties, not that long ago, when I was like, do I still wanna play music? Do I still wanna do that? Like, what does this look like in my life moving forward? And I think there was a point where I imagined myself maybe in my forties or fifties doing music full time.

[00:58:48] What does that look like? And it doesn't look like being famous. I don't, I don't. And I realize that was an important part of it. I don't actually want to be famous. No. Like at all. I don't want what comes with being all, I don't want, I don't want fame. 

[00:58:59] No, I love this MicroFame we have with this community, with the Enneagram micro famous is fun.

[00:59:04] Micro famous is so fun. Actual famous is not. Yeah, not at all. Micro famous is super fun because I love that. It's actually really great that so many people know so much about me. All at once. You know what I mean? It's so fun to just hop in conversations and people know who I am and better than my friends do.

[00:59:21] Yeah. To some degree. 'Cause yeah, I can confidently say that there's things I've said in this podcast that I've never said to another soul in my life. It's al it's always fun to get on a call with someone from the community and they're like, this is so weird because I feel like I know you so well, but you don't know me at all.

[00:59:36] Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that's, I've, I've realized maybe in this podcast has also helped teach me that, that that's really my goal for music is to find, like, carve out my little corner. I mean, know my little slice of, of, of the industry where I can cultivate a community of people who are just into what I'm doing.

[00:59:55] And we can just like, have fun with that. And that's, that's really all I want. Um, a thousand true fans, a thousand fans is all you need a thousand true fans. You can have a full do it full time. Um, so if any of you guys want to be those, those true fans that help me out it should, it should. You think there'd be crossover?

[01:00:12] There's not that much I don't think. I don't know if any of you guys actually listen to my music, please let me know. I'd love to know that there's some crossover, but but yeah, I, you know, I think that it's hard to say. It's hard to say what I'm looking forward to. Do you, do you have a clear idea of what you're looking forward to?

[01:00:26] You have a different thing 'cause you also have kids, like kids. If I had kids, I think I would be a different thing. Well, I know one thing. 

[01:00:32] I'm very much looking forward to living off my Bitcoin. Shut the fuck off.

[01:00:40] No. Yeah. It is, it is, it is different when you have kids. There's a, there's a lot that I'm looking forward to. I think that, you know, this year has just been, it. The start of the year, I would've never put any of this on my Bingo card, you know? Mm. And yeah, so much changed so fast. So much changed so fast.

[01:01:00] Yeah. And which has kind of been a theme for me, I guess. Yeah. But layoffs can do that, right? This, but this is like, this felt more, I don't know, the, the other things felt more of my choice. And this one, I, I mean, it, I'm not even gonna say that it was, it was my choice in a way. It's like, I, I just, I intuitively knew that something like this was going to happen.

[01:01:21] Mm. Yeah. Um, and I was, I was already kind of preparing for it, but I have just it feels vulnerable to say this like out loud, but. What I'm doing now is what I've always wanted to really do. And I was, you know, I was afraid to go for it. Yeah. And so getting laid off was the, the perfect opportunity.

[01:01:43] And it's been really hard. Not, not the stuff that I've done, but just like the, the overcoming resistance that I've had to do to actually do the stuff that I've been doing. Yeah. Um, and I've been doing a lot of stuff kind of behind the scenes that will come out in the coming months. And and there's, there's been days where I'm like, this is amazing.

[01:02:04] You know, uh, I wanna do this forever. And then there's days where I'm like, this is the worst. And, and then those days are mainly because of like my own internal stories and things that I, you know, that inner critic. But, but that's kind of just part of it. I like, I. I, I love being a creator. I love, like, I love the idea of being able to have my own business and be able to, you know, directly deliver value to people rather than some, you know, being one of hundreds of people and some company, you know, contributing a little bit.

[01:02:39] Like there's, there's something to be said for that. Like, I think that, you know, you can make a different kind of impact, but I just, that's just never been enough for me. Yeah. And, and I think going back to what I was saying earlier about, I'm, I'm trying to figure out how to, like, I'm doing the work to more and more every day.

[01:03:02] Show up, find ways to show up in the world as me. Mm. More and more, yeah, like more in terms of breadth and more in terms of depth as well. Mm. And so it's like a truer me and also more of me. Right. And, and as a father, God help us. Yeah, I know, right? I don't like it either. Like I'm not comfortable with it.

[01:03:24] I don't do this 'cause I like the sound of my own voice. Believe me. It's true. Yeah. And, and, but I, but you know, I will get, will get messages in the community or on social and we will, you know, I, I got testimonials back from, from Beyond the Mind and the program that we did and and I'm realizing more and more that like.

[01:03:45] This, this thing that we're building is one, it, it's helping people, even if it's just like helping people feel more like better known. Mm-hmm. And like they're not alone. Yeah. And that they have a place that they can come to where others understand what they're going through. And and if I can help along that journey in any way, like just one person, man, it's just, it.

[01:04:10] Yeah. It, it helps like make life feel. More alive, you know? Definitely. Well, you know, it's like, and I think about this all the time too. 

[01:04:22] I think that, um, you know, I, I wanna say to the listeners for a second that, you know, we do this. Are we not saying things to the listeners this whole time, kind of talking to ourselves and they're like, hanging out with us.

[01:04:33] Fair enough. Okay. All right. But like directly to everyone who listens to us and not to Josiah, uh, we don't know what kind of impact this has on us unless you tell us. And so, like, you know, I, I feel like. We do this for us. Yeah. And like we started it like, and at the end of the day, if nobody listens to this episode, I still enjoyed making it.

[01:04:58] Right. You know, that's, and, and that's the, that's, that's, it's an excuse for us to hang out and like, right. Yeah. I honestly not as much anymore though. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully. Yeah. But also it's an excuse for us to get to know each other better. It gives us a space where we, it feels very natural to open up in ways that we wouldn't.

[01:05:17] Right. I mean, in so much, like, literally when, like, paint the picture of when you got here and we barely said 10 words to each other for like 45 minutes. Yeah. But, and like. Outside of this context, and then we get in here and we can't stop talking, you know? Um, and, and much to maybe anybody's surprised we're not like this when we're, when it's not recording.

[01:05:36] True. We, we actually are free in our heads. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so, but then we get here and it's like, wow, this is great. Or we're, or we're talking about like our interests. Like that's a lot of what our conversations are. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. That's definitely, and like I said, I'm trying to figure out how to make that my life.

[01:05:54] Um, I would love to make more podcasts just about my interests. Um, but I think that, I remember, um, kind of where I was going with that was, um, there was a podcast that we used to listen to, kind of both of us did towards the tail end of, you know, deconstruction of all faith and religion and all of that.

[01:06:11] And we were listening to the Liturgist podcast and back when it was kind of like at the height, back when it was good. Back when it was good. Yeah. 

[01:06:20] Anyway, so we were, you know, back when we listened and they. There was a similar situation. I felt like that's kind of what I feel like is starting to happen here. At least I hope. And, and then that's at least how I feel is, um, where I felt like there was this disconnect between the hosts and the listeners.

[01:06:37] And there was this, but there was this community being built around this podcast with people and the, that's when they decided to do like a live event. And it's like when I read the testimonials, when I read like the comments that everybody leaves on reviews and stuff like it all, I'm like, one, I'm like, wow, this really is like important.

[01:06:56] What we do is, is actually impacting people in a positive way and making an effect. And making a change in a way that I don't think I ever would've made on anybody on my own in real life. But then too, immediately following that is I really wish we could all just be in the same room together. Yeah.

[01:07:09] 'cause I think it would be so fun and so, um, so, uh, challenging in really good ways and it would be such a beautiful moment. And that's hopefully we'll get there. You know, I would like to do that at some point. I. I wanna do it next year. Oh, okay. She, he's throwing it out there, everybody. Yeah, I have, I have some plan, I have some ideas on how we could do it.

[01:07:32] Um Mm. And, and just kind of like do a test run. Okay. If you're listening, do leave us a comment if you wanna do this. I would love to see the response. Yeah. Hop into the community on this episode, drop a comment and just say, Hey, I'm interested in Yeah. Doing something like, it would be in Chattanooga, Tennessee, so there would be travel for you if you're not around here.

[01:07:50] Luckily, Chattanooga's fairly central to at least the east coast. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, it's not too bad. Yeah. Our airport's getting bigger. You can maybe even fly directly here. That's true. They spent like tens of millions of dollars and added two gates. Two whole gates. Yeah.

[01:08:06] Um, but yeah, I mean, I think that I want more of that in my life as I get older. Yeah. And I, and I feel like, as it seems, based on the things people have said about this. Podcast that they get a lot out of it. And I think the way that we will get that back is by being in the same room together with everybody and, you know, being able to actually have a little bit of real community and talk with, I, I can't even imagine being in a room full of fives.

[01:08:31] Honestly, I, that's part of the reason why I want to do it just to like, yeah. As a social experiment, it'll be very clear where the wings are, where the, the stacking is. Yeah. Well, you know, forties next year for both of us. That's right. We gotta have a, we're gonna have to celebrate it. Yeah. It's a big milestone.

[01:08:51] Whether we like it or not. Maybe that's what we'll do. We'll have a, a joint 40th birthday party and invite all of our fives. Not a bad idea, actually. Um, that, that could be super fun. I also want to go on a trip though, so it's gotta be two separate things. We gotta have our five thing where it's just us, and then maybe have an event where like, come celebrate our birthday.

[01:09:12] That's, that's actually pretty great. Like literally like a month apart. Yeah. Where Yeah. We're almost exactly a month apart. Yeah. Which is crazy. So yeah, we could do it like in October. All right. Well, I guess that's the plan. All right. Cool. Well getting older. Everybody getting older. Happy birthday. Happy.

[01:09:30] Okay.