Ep. 55 - Hard Work & Motivation

Introduction: Work Smarter, Not Harder
[00:00:30] Josiah: So, Cody,
[00:00:32] Cody: Yes.
[00:00:34] Josiah: working hard or hardly working I was
[00:00:41] Cody: answer that so you know, there is that saying
[00:01:21] Josiah: work smarter, not harder.
Mm-hmm. And I kind of feel like
that's a good representation about how I've felt about work. That's a five
[00:01:31] Cody: Mm
[00:01:32] Josiah: my pretty most of my life.
[00:01:34] Cody: It's rubbed off on me. Yeah. Because now it's like I'm looking for every possible way to make my, any
[00:01:39] Josiah: easier and I've, I've tweaked it over the years.
The Essence of Working Smarter
[00:01:44] Josiah: And I think that this is sort of the essence of the conversation we're having here, that it's, I I changed the saying to be work harder at working smarter
[00:01:54] Cody: Okay
[00:01:55] Josiah: and and there's a reason for that. We'll get into that But looking back and honestly, you know, the whole working smarter not harder thing made me a really good engineer.
Like a software engineer. Yeah. Uh there's, there's this like meme with software engineers where like the best ones are both smart and lazy.
[00:02:15] Cody: And
[00:02:15] Josiah: And that definitely has defined me most of my life because you
[00:02:23] Cody: your bosses would define
[00:02:24] Josiah: Uh, Yeah,
[00:02:27] Cody: Nice. Okay.
[00:02:28] Josiah: a hundred percent. Yeah. Um, Cause I'm always like trying to figure out how to get out of work
[00:02:32] Cody: trying, ah,
[00:02:33] Josiah: I've just, I've always been one of those people who will over-engineer something to. Make my life 1% easier.
[00:02:40] Cody: yeah,
[00:02:42] Josiah: Like I will go through, I'll spend hours doing this super complex automation just so I won't have to send one email a week. Like, you know, like that kind of thing. And
[00:02:50] Cody: you're like, this is definitely not spinning my wheels.
[00:02:53] Josiah: This
[00:02:53] Cody: This is so much better, more
[00:02:55] Josiah: efficient.
[00:02:56] Cody: And,
[00:02:57] Josiah: and honestly, I think a lot of it goes to the energy management or the energy calculus. The way I like to say it for, for me as a five and
[00:03:05] Cody: and also the gratification of the knowing. You built something that, like, you get that gratification of like, I, this is more efficient now, right? Like, I created a system, maybe someone else will use it. You know? And,
[00:03:15] Josiah: and, and it's not just efficiency, it's also elegance.
Like I love when I create like a elegant solution to something. But I think the, the big thing about it is that whenever I am met with some task, I'm not just thinking about. This is the task I need to do. I'm thinking about if I do this task, what else is going to be required of me in the future? Yeah.
Right. And so I'm, I'm, I'm projecting out, like if I send this email now, like how many times am I gonna have to respond to this? Or how many more emails am I gonna have to send? And so it's never just about the thing. Yeah. It's always about all the things that spawn off from the thing that I'm going to do.
Yeah.
[00:03:53] Cody: Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
[00:03:54] Josiah: And, and so, you know, that has helped me learn how to be a good systems thinker and learn how to build things and learn how to automate things and learn how to be strategically lazy. and, and there's definitely something to be said for that. Like, there we need that. Yeah. Um, I've, I've been paid very well in my career for being able to do that kind of stuff, right?
Yeah. But if you only live that way, you run into some problems. That is what I've found is that I've just had this almost like allergic reaction to hard work for most of my life.
[00:04:30] Cody: Okay.
[00:04:31] Josiah: And that has meant that like it has caused me to have a really hard time committing to things. And it's, it's caused me to spend a lot of wasted time and energy avoiding things.
[00:04:44] Cody: Mm.
[00:04:44] Josiah: And so there's a lot I think we could unpack in that.
[00:04:49] Cody: yeah, definitely.
Defining Hard Work
[00:04:51] Josiah: But I'm curious from your perspective, like how do you think about a hard work
and maybe we should define hard work first.
If we can do that, I think about hard work as the things that you don't want to do that are standing in between you and your objective.
[00:05:10] Cody: Mm.
[00:05:10] Josiah: and so I was always trying to find ways to step around the things that were in my way. Mm-hmm. Try to shortcut or sidestep them
[00:05:22] Cody: Yeah.
[00:05:23] Josiah: Rather than like climbing over them or going through them, or, you know, actually addressing them.
Sure.
[00:05:28] Cody: sure.
[00:05:28] Josiah: it has come back to bite me in the ass many times in my life because you can only do that for so long,
[00:05:34] Cody: right? Yeah.
[00:05:35] Josiah: Yeah. Again, I'm curious to hear like how have you approached hard work kind of in your life growing up to this point?
[00:05:43] Cody: man? So
Yeah, that's, that's, it's kind of a big question. I don't know.
Parental Influence on Work Ethic
[00:05:51] Cody: I feel like what first comes to mind when I think of hard work growing up was. Was my dad because he was always working and you know, he, he worked for the government, worked in a nuclear plant, and I remember he, he's a radiation monitor, like engineer or something.
Or not an engineer, like an instrument mechanic. So he's the one taking apart, like specifically focusing on like radiation monitors.
[00:06:15] Josiah: Like nuclear radiation.
[00:06:16] Cody: Pretty important. Yeah. but he used to fix all kinds of stuff and so like, I always like imagined him like in, he'd have to go into like containment areas to have to put on the whole suit.
Wow. You know, and it's like, I don't know how long it is. He said it's a ridiculously long process and you sweat and like getting out is, you gotta hook up through this whole cleaning process. but most of the time he's like in a flannel shirt and jeans and like a hard hat. Right. And I always imagined him doing that all day, never stopping and just like working on different things all the time.
People just asking him for his expertise. Now keep in mind, he's also a five, so this was like the quintessential job for a five. but I never saw, I mean, I saw him, he was always, most of his days were like eight to four, you know, and then he would do these, outages where they'd have to like, take apart something and and replace equipment.
And he would work. It was like rotating or it was like six days a week, 12 hours a day for like, and when I was a kid, it was like two months. And then by the time I was an adult, they could get it done in like two weeks to less than month, you know, it was like two to four weeks.
thinking about growing up and, and that was like hard work for me, but it was also like, that had that element of absenteeism, you know, it's just like, I knew dad was working the hardest when I never saw him. Mm. And that was kind of like how I, that got tied to that. But he was also like.
You know, it, it, it's, it's like the, the, the, the main example that we have for, you know, at least I am, and me and you I guess about, it was kind of like my main example that growing up was like the different aspects or facets of my dad. Um, and, and what that, what he, like on Saturdays he would have the Saturday off and he would get up and like reorganize his tools and like wash the cars and do all the things.
He was always doing something and taking care of the things that you, you know, just gotta be taken care of. I see a lot of myself or see a lot of my dad and myself now,
[00:08:16] Josiah: Yeah. I think a lot of how I view hard work comes from my dad as well. Like, he grew up on a farm and he would get up and do all the farm work, you know, like four or 5:00 AM and then eat, eat like a dozen eggs for breakfast, like, not joking.
And then he would, and then he would go to school. And then he had football practice and then he would come home and do more chores and homework and it was just like, that's how, tho that's a story I always heard about my dad growing up. And then he would, you know, he was definitely a workaholic. And his job, he was on call a lot.
He's a HVAC technician a commercial hvac and so like, the freezers and all the Publix's grocery stores like
[00:09:08] Cody: oh wow.
[00:09:08] Josiah: So his company, you know, installed those and maintain most of those, all the ones in Georgia and Tennessee. and so it's like, and those things break down a lot.
Like it's kind of insane.
[00:09:19] Cody: and it's like an emergency when it
[00:09:20] Josiah: right? Yeah.
[00:09:21] Cody: there's all this
[00:09:21] Josiah: All this product. All this product. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why, you know, they're on call and I remember him, Some days he'd get a call, like his patient would go off at two or 3:00 AM and he would get up and he'd go to work and he'd work for 14, 16 hours and then come home and then, you know, and and on one hand, like, I admired that about him.
And on the other hand, I, you know, like, like we talked about in the last episode, I had very unrealistic expectations around what you know, what a father was supposed to be. And so I had that. Yeah. And, and I wanted to, you know, I wanted to spend time with him and I wanted him to, you know, seem like he wants to spend time with me.
Yeah. And you know, but he was just always working and thinking about work and or it was either work or church basically. And there's a lot that I'm realizing now in my late thirties that, oh, I made, a lot of the decisions I made were more. Choosing whatever the opposite of, of what my dad was.
[00:10:19] Cody: Yeah, definitely.
[00:10:20] Josiah: and I remember him, actually, I think it was in high school. He asked me one time if I ever would get a blue collar job.
[00:10:27] Cody: and
[00:10:27] Josiah: I was like, Nope, never doing that. Remember my dad tried to
[00:10:30] Cody: my dad tried to get me a job over at the, at the plant and I was
[00:10:34] Josiah: Oh, yeah,
[00:10:34] Cody: yep, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:36] Josiah: And, and there was something about, I don't know, I viewed, I especially viewed more physical jobs because I had, I had really bad chronic fatigue like we talked about, and had a lot of health issues.
I didn't realize I had health issues and, and so that really played into it too, like that that low energy, chronic fatigue was, was brutal. And I developed this. Identity that I was lazy and I was always comparing myself to my dad, and I always felt like he was comparing me to him,
[00:11:04] Cody: same.
[00:11:05] Josiah: and I felt that he thought I was lazy.
And he probably did. I don't know. I don't think we've ever actually talked about it. Yeah. and so I just, I had this aversion to hard work and
[00:11:14] Cody: As it was defined
[00:11:15] Josiah: as it was, yeah, it was defined to me, but also like, because of that, I, and because like we talked about, like I picked things up really easily in school.
I just, anything that didn't come easy, I wasn't interested in. And, and so, which,
in some ways that led me down the career that I went down. But I also avoided a lot of the hard inner work too, and that's the thing.
It's like, definitely, yeah. Anything that felt hard, anything that took a lot of effort. There was always this voice in me trying to talk me out of it and tell me it wasn't worth the effort. And, you know, and, and I would always try to find the easy way out or I would avoid it. And
[00:12:00] Cody: That's how I was with relationships. Yeah. In my teens and twenties, for sure. Yeah. It de it defined it because I was like, oh, well, I always thought like, if it was right, it would be easy.
[00:12:11] Josiah: Right.
[00:12:12] Cody: know? Like that's, I feel like that was like a big defining a kind of attribute. I was, I was projecting onto all relationships, whether it was friends or, or romantic partners.
I felt like that was always something where I was just like, I was, I was, I was putting it into that kind of box. I would've never thought that. It was like kind of this idea of like, how I viewed hard work or, and defined it, you know?
[00:12:34] Josiah: Yeah. And that's, that's a really good point too, because on the flip side of it, there's that saying, if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life, you know? Yeah. Which I think is,
[00:12:41] Cody: I don't, I, I used to, I used to hear that and be like, oh, that's so like, whimsical and inspiring and now I like, there's no truth to
[00:12:47] Josiah: Yeah. Well, I think the, to me, my interpretation now more of like, the essence of it is that it's the difference between grinding and being in flow state
[00:12:58] Cody: Mm.
[00:12:58] Josiah: mm-hmm. Where like, you can be doing the same things, but when you're in flow state, it feels effortless even though you're, you're putting forth effort.
Yeah. and, I think that where I got hung up was I was always chasing the flow state,
[00:13:14] Cody: I
[00:13:14] Josiah: and I would do, I put all, and, and when I couldn't get it, I would. Put all of my effort into trying to engineer the flow state,
[00:13:21] Cody: Mm. Yeah.
[00:13:23] Josiah: and instead I needed to learn how to, while I'm trying to, you know, while I'm trying to increase the chances that I can get into that flow state, I also need to learn how to just do the shit anyway when I'm not in flow state.
Right. Because instead I discipline. Yeah, yeah. It, it is discipline and, and it's like, which is another trigger word for me that is,
[00:13:47] Cody: yeah. I think that's more from religion, but yeah. We, we have, we're gonna have another religion conversation at some point. We have so many more things we could say. Um, Let me, I, before we get too far away from it.
Flow State and Productivity
[00:14:01] Cody: Yeah. Do you have a, do you have a specific thought that comes to mind when you think of flow state?
Like a specific moment or experience where you're like, that was the, like, it's just, that's what your brain recalls as like the ultimate flow state.
[00:14:11] Josiah: Yeah. When I, there were times when I was coding.
[00:14:14] Cody: Yeah.
[00:14:15] Josiah: The world just like melted away. And I was just building beautiful, elegant things and it was the, it was usually stuff that I, I was, I didn't, I wasn't asked to do or I wasn't, it wasn't actually part of my job, but it was distracting me from the other work and that.
And so, but there, there, there's been a few times where I'm building this thing and I am falling asleep at night, like coding stuff in my head. And then I wake up the next morning and get to work early so I could work on it before my, like workday started. And, and, and so there, like when I was in that state, yeah, that's what comes to mind.
It's like the most potent times. I think the most recent times for me have been, since I got laid off earlier this year. When I was really in the flow of putting together the strategy for what I'm doing now with, you know, fully five and like the content, the initial like content strategy before my life kind of blew up this summer, which is gonna be in a conversation some point coming up.
But that, that's the most recent time I remember. And I, and I'll get into it like more in more brief moments you know, on a much more regular basis than I used to. But that's what I think of where it just, it feels like I just like enjoying what I'm doing so much that it doesn't feel like a lot of effort.
And that's what I think of when I think of Flow State.
[00:15:35] Cody: Yeah. Athletes talk about it a lot and different people. Like, you know, I saw a scene just like two days ago for, it was like a scene from that movie F1 with Brad Pitt in
[00:15:45] Josiah: Mm.
[00:15:46] Cody: I haven't watched it, but I saw this random scene where he's talking about, he said that there's this moment that happens. I'm gonna paraphrase, obviously I saw it once, but there's this moment that happens when like everything melts away and it's just you in the car and like everything, it feels like it's an extension of you.
And like everything there's in that moment, it's just it. You're just there and it's just, you're in kind of in that, in that zone. And he says, I've spent the, I've spent my entire life chasing that moment for that moment to happen again. And I thought that, that's kind of interesting. You think about all of the, you know, big athletes and all that stuff.
And then I think about what I think about what I remember as flow state. My, this is what made me wanna ask you. 'cause I knew you'd have all of these great moments. And my moment is holiday season 2012 when I worked at Starbucks.
[00:16:30] Josiah: tell me more.
[00:16:32] Cody: So I just have this memory of being like, in that moment and looking to my left and seeing like 15 cups lined up and I'm just like, all over that espresso machine. I'm just like killing it, you know, drinks out rapidly. It, it got to the point where like, and I pride myself in this, that when it got, when it got busy, they were like, put Cody on the espresso machine.
'cause I would just get into this like zone and just lock everything out and just like making the drinks super fast. 'cause like they have for all of the Starbucks is like whatever pros and cons. Like they have a really, really good system for an organization.
[00:17:05] Josiah: Very
[00:17:05] Cody: Many of my jobs after that, I'm sure I've talked about before, like the, when I worked at the liquor store as a buyer and we did like through COVID and stuff and turned it into a warehouse.
A lot of that system came from Starbucks and like warehouses I worked in. And that's what I remember. It was like, there's, there's that moment where it's just like you just hit those smooth, you know, like rough waters and then smooth, smooth waters, you know, you're just flying. And yeah, I don't know why, but that is the memory that always sticks in my head.
[00:17:30] Josiah: Mm.
[00:17:31] Cody: And I just remember being the holidays, it was like, right, it was like two weeks before Christmas. It was like crazy. Yeah. I don't know how to apply that to anything else in my life really, but.
[00:17:42] Josiah: Well, what about music? Do you ever get in the flow state with music?
[00:17:45] Cody: play? Um, Yeah, I played, I played a gig recently that was just like this kind of throwaway, like extra money gig and.
My buddy who we've had on the, on the show before, Cody other, the other Cody he came and he just randomly, like last minute was like, I'll play with you. So I was like, all right. And we haven't played together in a very, very long time. So no practice, no nothing. But there was definitely a few moments in those sets where it was like, it was, you get to where when you've played with somebody so long, you, there's an intuition that happens there and unaid intuition.
And I felt like I could, there were moments where I remember I could feel where he was wanting to go musically, and so I could just build up to that and give him that moment. And it was like that handing back and forth, yeah, so I think when it, my. When it comes to music, my favorite like flow state moments are always involving other people. I can't do it by myself. Like not really, you know, I can be there. There's moments where like my voice just kind of, I can just, I don't have to think about it. I can just in kind of instinctively go where I want and, and those, those nights are nice.
But there's, it's nothing like playing with other people and just like having like a room full of musicians. Like my dream is to be in a room full of musicians who are all better than me. 'cause it's like a lot of, a lot of people would think that's intimidating and I used to, but I, I know where I am and where I can fit into music.
And so I feel like that would be the ultimate flow state is like being able to just kind of follow a lot, follow people. And we're all kind of on the same page, but just like, I don't have to think about them at all. They're gonna go where they're gonna go and we're all just gonna feel it. And so I think that would be, that's like my dream, my dream scenario for a flow state
[00:19:22] Josiah: Yeah, gotten into flow states a lot during these conversations.
[00:19:29] Cody: Yeah. Yeah, there's been a few good episodes like that.
[00:19:32] Josiah: Yeah. The, I think some of our best episodes were when we were just like, really in the moment and we were just like, we don't know exactly where the conversation's going, but we're so present that it just sort of comes, you know, comes out
[00:19:45] Cody: like the third recording of expectations.
[00:19:50] Josiah: Oh yeah. Don't
[00:19:51] Cody: that up
[00:19:51] Josiah: again.
[00:19:54] Cody: Oh, man,
[00:19:56] Josiah: Yeah. I, I think alcohol helped in those early episodes.
[00:20:02] Cody: It's probably true.
[00:20:03] Josiah: Yeah. So we talked about how our view of hard work was shaped sort of growing up. Mm-hmm. And we talked about what contrasts that of like flow state.
[00:22:36] Cody: mm-hmm.
Evolving Perspectives on Hard Work
[00:22:37] Josiah: how do you approach hard work now? Like what has changed since you were younger?
[00:22:44] Cody: I, I used to, just avoid at all costs. The idea of hard work. Like when I, when, when I was younger, it was like chores maybe, or things you just didn't want to do, right. But I remember having like a list of chores, it had to be done. And I never really thought about the fact I was gonna have to do those without anybody telling me when I'm older and that I should probably just come to peace with it now.
Instead of like resisting it so much. I think that's the thing that I wish, I wish I had picked up and I would definitely, if I had kids, I would teach them that early in life because it's just like the world only turns when we're doing the things. You know what I mean? Like, that's the way the world, that's the way we move.
That's that way we exist is when we, there's like, there's all of that happening. I was watching a video recently about this guy who used to live in North Korea and he was, they were doing a few different things showing things from there. But one of the things was they, they hear this alarm that's this exact same very creepy ass song every single morning.
It's very eerie sounding. And they all, he said that they would all, when they hear this, there's a car that drives by, it's in every train station, every air, like everywhere in this one city. And they wake the whole town up and the whole town knows to get up and they go out and clean the street.
[00:23:55] Josiah: up. What?
[00:23:56] Cody: Everybody goes out and it's like their job. But like he said, one of the, you know, the things that he brings back to the US and in his life now is that idea that like, we're all in, we all do the things. Like there's certain things that we just all have to do to take care of the world around us and ourselves and the world, the ones we love.
And I would say that that's something I didn't learn early on, that I did, I think learn, start to learn more. In my thirties, like my twenties were still a lot of just like no maintenance. You know, it was just like a train with no breaks, just going wherever I'm gonna go, you know? There was no like intention behind my life in my days.
And I feel like now I, I might have lazy days, I might have unmotivating days, but I, there's things that I will, I, I take a lot more pride in certain types of work because of. Because of what it does for the people that I, in my life that I love. Like having a family, like having, you know, we have, and I've also that idea of like, they always say like, the pride of ownership of when, when it comes to like a house.
And I definitely have been feeling that a lot in the last month. 'cause it's like, I know that whatever I'm doing, it's like just for us, like, that's it. I'm not doing it for anybody who owns the property or anything like that. It's, and it is such a different feeling and to take care of the things around you, knowing that, that it, like this is, this is like what you're entrusted with, right?
Like this is your place, it's your, your property.
[00:25:20] Josiah: You're a steward.
[00:25:21] Cody: I'm a steward. Yes. That's, I talk about words that are traumatizing. Um, A steward of my property. Um, But, you know, and also too, I think, I don't know. I mean, being married obviously and having somebody that I, getting to a place where I didn't feel like I, I had to do things.
To help take care of things, take care of the house, take care of you know, her or whatever. But because I wanted to. Mm. You know, and like, I think that was probably my first shift within my mind. I mean, it sounds so simple, out loud, but like, it's sometimes hard for you to get there subconsciously. And like really, it really like plant those seeds, you know, to stay there, plant those roots, I should say.
And where I, I started doing, I do chores. I do, I picked up doing all the laundry because I know that that's something that is time consuming for her. And Madison doesn't always wanna do it when she gets home from work. And like, and also like in my new space, the washer and the dryer are here. So I'm like, it makes the most sense for me to do it because it's right here.
And pat, younger Cody would not have offered to do the laundry, I'll tell you that right now. Um, But I think that has a lot to do with it. And also, I mean, even in my job right now, I feel like I've, I, I look at it differently based on the fact that like. I just, I take more pride in my work, and my work is all relationship BA based.
And so like, it's kind of easy for me to lose that, lose sight of that sometimes. But when I kind of remember that like, you know, despite all the things that happen with companies as, as they do things you disagree with and all the things that you make, you not wanna work for the band, right? But I break it down to my day to day.
I'm just making sure that all of these people that I, you know, work with and are just trying to have successful businesses, I'm just making sure they have what they need. And like, that's, that's the, when I think of that and that's the core of what I'm doing, then it's easy for me to just kind of stay focused on that and, and care about my work enough to get it done and do it right and, and do a good job.
[00:27:15] Josiah: Know what they call that?
[00:27:16] Cody: what's that?
Purpose-Driven Life and Alignment
[00:27:17] Josiah: Purpose-driven life.
[00:27:20] Cody: We're not gonna get off with these Christian references Evangelicalism everywhere.
[00:27:25] Josiah: Man. I, this is something that I think was inevitable for me to start to come to grips with. Oh, because there are so many of these terms that are just like, really triggering. Yeah. And, and even, and, and like just different ideas that are triggering because of how they were enforced and implemented on me. and so because of that, I've thrown out a lot of things that actually do have value because I had associated them with, with the stuff from church and trauma and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And one of those things is purpose. because the, that word has always meant God's will for your life. Right? Yeah. And, and we've talked about how that has impacted me. And, and so, you know, I, I, I turned. Completely 180 away from the, any idea of purpose for a long time. But that is just nihilism. Mm-hmm. And, and so that doesn't work either. And I've been coming back to that concept and realizing that it's so vital to who I am to have a vision and a purpose, and feel like there's something greater that I'm working toward.
and that it is, that it is of me. And not that I'm just working for someone else, but that, and I'm not saying that specifically is, is, is not a purpose. But for me it has to be something that comes, like is birthed from me. Mm-hmm. and so I've been finding that When I'm not aligned, when, when my, my actions and the things that I'm doing are not aligned with that I burn out and it makes everything harder.
And that's another thing that can make this whole situation more confusing is that we avoid hard work. But the reason why it's hard many times is because you're not actually in alignment, but you're never gonna find out that you're out of alignment because you're avoiding the work.
[00:29:32] Cody: a Right.
[00:29:33] Josiah: Right?
That's where you find it out, right? When you're, when you're in it and you are, you get to experience it and you get to feel whether it was the anxiety of getting started that you didn't like, or if it was actually the work itself and then it, it wasn't resonating with you. And so, and, but you, you'll never know that until you're doing it and.
Becoming a Full-Time Content Creator
[00:29:55] Josiah: That's what I experienced earlier this year when I essentially became a full-time content creator. And I had had this idea in my head of what it was going to feel like and and at first it, it did and then it didn't. Right, right.
Facing Challenges and Staying Aligned
[00:30:11] Josiah: The, the shine wore off and I was really met with like, am I still gonna do the thing?
Especially 'cause my world was, you know, looking like it was crumbling. And I showed up and I did the thing. Anyway, at one of the hardest parts in my life, I still showed up for this thing, which was when I did the beta test of, of what we're we now call the fully five accelerator. Right? Yeah. And what I proved to myself in that was that what I'm doing is actually aligned because I still did it.
I still showed up despite everything in me wanting to run away. And when I showed up and then I saw the impact that it was having and that impact resonated so deeply with me, and it just felt so aligned and it's, it's aligned to a greater purpose, which is helping people, you know, helping people like me who are on, on a similar journey.
If I can help them, you know, escape some of the traps that I fell into for too long, and, you know, shortcut that, or accelerate that, you know, that growth journey for them that is, you know, worth the effort.
[00:31:24] Cody: Mm.
Discovering Purpose Through Hard Work
[00:31:24] Josiah: when I think about hard work now, what's different now for me? is that I am on a, like constant journey of discovery of what my purpose is and what aligns with me, what resonates with me. And I'm doing that through doing the, the work and doing, going into the chaos and all the uncertainty. And for me, that is changing sort of my identity of myself, right?
Because I had always told myself that I, I'm a sprinter, not a marathoner.
[00:31:56] Cody: Mm-hmm. Right? Yep.
[00:31:59] Josiah: And I can, I can have a big burst of energy on something that I'm excited about for a short period of time. But I'm not in it for the long haul. Right. And that has always been how I've approached things.
It's like, I can do this for a little bit, but I'm not in it for the long haul.
[00:32:14] Cody: Yeah.
Changing Perspectives on Hard Work
[00:32:15] Josiah: it was like the fear of getting stuck in the grind,
[00:32:18] Cody: Mm. Okay. Yeah. That's a whole other aspect of it. Yeah.
[00:32:21] Josiah: Because that's a, I mean, that's a big part of, to me, like when I think about hard work, it's, it's that grind, it's that daily just like forcing yourself to do all this stuff, you know?
[00:32:30] Cody: like a prison. Yeah. It's like hard work means you're just imprisoned in some somebody else's dream, essentially.
[00:32:37] Josiah: I mean, you are, you're the mule. Like you are, you're doing, you're carrying all the load and you do it every day.
And it's, it's all for everyone else and never for you. And, you know, just a lot of. A lot of that stuff is, is how I viewed hard work. And what I'm realizing now is that hard work is just the obstacle that's between you and moving forward with, towards your purpose. And, that means that even if you don't feel like doing it, you do it. And in that you are aligning yourself more and you're, working more from a and toward a place of love.
Parenting and Learning Love
[00:33:18] Josiah: and the reason why I use the word love specifically is I think this is where I started to learn this in a real tangible way, was when I became a dad. I think we talked about that like way back in the parenting episode.
Yeah. But I, I, I knew myself, I knew that if I didn't go all in from the very beginning and use that initial energy to build that experience of, changing diapers and,
[00:33:45] Cody: energy. Sure.
[00:33:46] Josiah: cleaning up, spit up and, you know, like bouncing him for hours because he has, you know, he's crying and he has like reflux and gas and all that, right?
Yeah. I knew that if I didn't go all in on that in the beginning, then I would get to a place where I was, I was avoiding it
[00:34:02] Cody: in. Yeah.
[00:34:02] Josiah: and so I, I came in and I said, I'm going to change every diaper I can. I'm going to make sure that I build that muscle memory so much that I don't have to think about it and I can just do it.
Right. Yeah. And in this process I was just very hands-on of caring for this little person and getting nothing in return. And that's what I realized that I was cultivating love. And there is, there's effort and there's work in love
[00:34:34] Cody: mm-hmm.
[00:34:35] Josiah: and, and that is worth the effort. Yeah. Right. And it's, it's not only is it worth the effort, but it requires the effort.
And it's that work that is like digging at that soil to, to plant the seeds. Right. And, and so, you know, and when you're, when you're planting those seeds, like you don't know what's gonna grow and what's not gonna grow. And so it can be really easy to tell yourself that, you know, it's not worth it 'cause it's not gonna work.
[00:35:03] Cody: I'd venture to say too though, if we're gonna take that an analogy probably further than we need to um, but. but.
[00:35:10] Josiah: but
[00:35:11] Cody: I think a lot of it has to do too with thinking about the, the whole analogy of planting seeds, I think too the, the work of the, the farmer who imagines the full crops, blooming and, and coming to harvest, farmers don't plant seeds 'cause they like planting seeds.
They like, they plant seeds 'cause they know what the outcome is gonna be. Yeah. Like, they can see it in their minds.
Motivation and Habit Building
[00:35:33] Cody: And I think that, that I know we were originally gonna do this as a different episode, but hard work and motivation actually tie together really well. And I think that that's kind of also kind of what you're talking about.
It's, it's like, it doesn't change the actions of, of the process, but it changes the way that you think about them and the way you feel about them. And I don't think, I don't necessarily think that like. Everybody has to do what you did when you became a dad, where it's like, I'm gonna make this muscle memory because I used to think that way and what, what kind of was, I was thinking about when you were saying that was like, I definitely felt that way.
Like, oh, if I just did it enough times, like, like they say, like building habits. It takes, what, 30 days or whatever, however many days. And sure, that's true, but my habits that stick are the ones where I change my perspective on the outcome of those things. Like what? Why am I doing it? You know? Am I doing it just because like someone told me I had to, or like this is what the, just what everybody says needs to be done or whatever.
Or is it because I know the outcome, I know how this benefits, you know, whatever the situation is. If it's this stuff around the house, it's like, I know this benefits the household.
[00:36:36] Josiah: Yeah, a hundred percent. And that's really what I was doing too, because the, the meta view of that was. This is the relationship I want to have with my son. Yeah. And I don't want it to be like, my relationship was with my dad. Right. And so here's what I'm doing differently and here's how the outcome is gonna be different.
Yeah. Um, Because what I was really saying in that was, I, when I said that I knew that I didn't jump in the beginning, then I would avoid it. I knew that if I didn't address the things that were standing between me and my purpose in this, then I would never establish that connection. You know, I would, I would not, I would not have the relationship with my son that I do now, you know, and I could see that, I could see two paths, right?
Mm-hmm. and I didn't, I I, I didn't even think about, you know, going down the other path at all. Like, it was just like, this is what I gotta do. And, and just because. To your point, I see that vision that of what I want our relationship to be like when he's older. Right. And, and I've gotta do this work now because that is what, you know, creates that for fertile soil.
[00:37:45] Cody: Well, and to reference the, the parenting episode in another way too. You know, I, back then when we recorded that, which I mean this has been like, what, two years ago? Three years ago?
[00:37:55] Josiah: that was first season.
[00:37:56] Cody: Oh, first, yeah, you're right. It was the first season. So 20. Wow. Been almost five years. 21.
[00:38:00] Josiah: Yeah.
[00:38:01] Cody: And so, yeah, I think that one of the things that has changed in me where I think I can, I don't know if I've said this on the podcast or not before, but like as asti as things have changed, I've been like more open to the idea of kids at some point in my own life than I was before.
But honestly, I think it's just that I think that's changed. I think it's the way that I have learned to approach things that I've been afraid of or I didn't want, for whatever reason, did wanna do insecurity or just like work hard work is that I changed. My perspective on it and, and feel differently about what it would take to be a parent and now and, and have tied that into so many other areas of my life.
You know, I'm not an expert at it by any means, but I think that that has definitely impacted making progress on things. Like you're talking about doing stuff for the podcast and like how hard it is to jump into, I mean, being a content creator and a five does not go together.
[00:38:56] Josiah: It is. It is not. Not naturally. Yeah. Cohesive.
[00:41:06] Cody: So, yeah, I think that it just has to do with how, you know, the perspective changing within all of those actions has to do with, you know, kind of the way that you redefine, the like, the way that you can see the end and, and it helps like you see the reason why you're doing the thing that helps with that perspective and and it helps with keeping yourself motivated.
The Creative Process and Inspiration
[00:41:26] Cody: I think you know, I think that that's, I've, my entire existence has been one constant cycle of being like. So easily can drop into flow state so easily, can believe in myself enough to see that, oh, I could do this. I could really, I could really be a musician full-time if I wanted to. I can. And I, I start seeing, I don't
[00:41:47] Josiah: ' I don't think that it
[00:41:48] Cody: it,
takes seeing the end result.
I think it just takes believing that you can get to that place regardless of what, what it's, what hurdles are gonna come in your way. Right. And that's something I've learned in music is, I don't, I no longer when I stopped wishing for myself of like You know, full-time music musician looks like touring and signed and you're
[00:42:09] Josiah: Yeah music
[00:42:09] Cody: and you're famous, or you have all these fans, like, I don't think of that as the successful point for music anymore.
I think of it as carving out my own niche in music, in the music industry, and finding whatever that thing is. And then if I can figure out that for myself, then the people will come. Like people will find me one way or another. I can put myself out there and I'll be, be more confident at it. And I think.
Knowing that and being in a place where I can understand that that is, that I, that I believe that's attainable, that I could find that place then my decisions then become like, okay, well how do I get there? And so it doesn't really matter if I don't know how or whatever. I, that's, that's how I was motivated to do this podcast.
'cause I I, believed after you talked to me enough times about it that I was like, okay, I think I can do this. And then I just jumped off, jumped off and took that first step. And that's what keeps. It both helps in your actions and what you consider the work of, of life and adulthood and, and existing. And the motivation to keep doing it is, is being able to if you can cultivate that kind of perspective and motivation for yourself, then it keeps, it'll keep you going through the darker or the lower times.
'cause like it's a sprint, like it's a, that, that's, there's a brief moment that it's easy for me. To like get motivated to do all the things. And I always try to capitalize on them. Like I'm in that state a little bit right now, so I'm like, I gotta get my mics out. I gotta record, like I've gotta do things.
'cause right now I'm all about it. But then it's like much much, much, harder when I am like, the depression comes back.
[00:43:44] Josiah: Yeah
[00:43:44] Cody: know and like I'm, I'm no longer motivated to do anything. I'm only apathetic. I was, I was thinking of it before it was like, you know, the difference between the, the two sides of that cycle feel like when you're in an ocean and you're.
Swimming towards the shore and you feel the current of the waves pushing you forward. It's almost feels like, you know, when you're like lifting your feet off the sand, it's almost effortless. You're just like, oh everything's going my way
[00:44:08] Josiah: off literally figuratively
[00:44:11] Cody: And
[00:44:11] Josiah: Then all of a sudden that
[00:44:12] Cody: ocean turns into molasses and you don't
[00:44:14] Josiah: take it's like every
[00:44:16] Cody: it takes every ounce of your energy to take one step, and that's.
That's what I imagined. Like that's what it feels like you know And so like you have to have a pretty damn good reason to keep going when you're stuck in molasses.
[00:44:30] Josiah: yeah
[00:44:31] Cody: And so I think that in that way, you know what you're really describing by saying, you know, that you, you'd figured out all these things or you learned that habit of of, you basically made yourself create a habit out of, out of doing the actions that led you to better understand what love is Mm-hmm Um. But it was the motivation that started you because you
[00:44:53] Josiah: Started things a lot You've had ideas for the podcast
I've started a, I've started a lot of things. Started a of
and things that I know you, you imagined what the, what possibilities could be,
[00:45:04] Cody: know, but it, and you were doing the same actions you're doing now, but just with the different
[00:45:09] Josiah: in a different
[00:45:09] Cody: different
mindset and so,
[00:45:11] Josiah: not the that's
[00:45:12] Cody: I was gonna say, it's not the actions necessarily that do it It's definitely the reason for the actions and the mo and that keeps you motivated.
[00:45:19] Josiah: there's
something about
there's something
about giving yourself
or giving a part of you like freely to something that's bigger than
yourself
[00:45:29] Cody: right
[00:45:30] Josiah: Like that's where That cultivation comes And so yeah you're right It's not about the actions yourself it's what themselves it's what the actions sort of represent or allow you to do Yeah which is which is poor part of yourself into someone else without expecting anything in return And
someone told me that kind of the, the difference between a successful writer and a writer who never actually puts anything out there is that The one, who never puts anything out there is always waiting for inspiration first before they write And that's not how things are made How things are made is you sit down and write regardless of whether inspiration shows up Yeah
Either
[00:46:14] Cody: either wait for inspiration to find you, or you go and
[00:46:17] Josiah: that's
difference. Yeah. And sometimes you don't find it You don't find it
[00:46:19] Cody: Sometimes you don't find
[00:46:20] Josiah: but you do it anyway and you show up the next day, you know, and
[00:46:23] Cody: and the more
[00:46:24] Josiah: it and you're looking
[00:46:25] Cody: the more you start to realize what inspiration looks
[00:46:27] Josiah: Yeah
because I don't think that we
[00:46:28] Cody: ever, when you are always, I talk to musicians all the time that are like this one musician comes to mind where he's just like, I just, so
[00:46:36] Josiah: are dreams tonight
[00:46:37] Cody: sit down and write just because, and I just, I, he puts all these expectations and like musician, I did this for most of my life.
And, and then I learned that if I sit down to write for the sake of writing, I, I'm not putting any expectation on the song. I'm not thinking about what style a song should be. If it's gonna be a song that's even good, if anybody's ever gonna hear it. I'm just sitting down to write something. And if I do that every single day, I've learned in February writers every year and that if I do it, I'm
[00:47:05] Josiah: Always Cape
[00:47:06] Cody: of more than I thought I've come out with.
[00:47:08] Josiah: Don't I come out all and said I end up
[00:47:09] Cody: working on the rest of the year. Yeah.
[00:47:11] Josiah: like that's my
[00:47:11] Cody: that's that's, my pool that I'm, I'm, I'm now, you know, looking to pull from whenever I need new songs. And you know, out of 20, this last year though, out of 27 songs 26 25 somewhere around there I had like.
18 of them that I was like, these are
[00:47:26] Josiah: Songs like I would do
with these
I would've it happens
[00:47:30] Cody: it proves me wrong every year. Every year I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able come up with the ideas this year. And there's
[00:47:34] Josiah: always that
[00:47:34] Cody: voice in the back of my head, you know, it's just like, that's not how
[00:47:37] Josiah: works
[00:47:38] Cody: I think of two great books that are on that page or on this no pun intended, on the same page as what we're talking about is the War of
[00:47:45] Josiah: Art Uhhuh It's an
one
[00:47:46] Cody: Talking about moving out. Resistance in your life and personifying that resistance. And then there's another one called that I think maybe I've mentioned here before.
It's called The Creative Way. Yeah and that one is like an ex that was an even more expansive idea and concept into getting to the nitty gritty of like. There, it's more looking down into the cracks of everyday life and how, how you focus your energy on being like a conduit or rece to receive that muse, that creativity, that inspiration. And it kind of got me thinking about it that way for sure. And just more recently, like maybe in the last year.
[00:48:21] Josiah: That Zen saying or whatever it is you know before enlightenment chop wood carry water after enlightenment chop wood carry water Yeah Right there's something about the the ritual of pursuing your purpose
and whatever that
looks like and like in the
day to day there's there's something about that that just, it changes how you perceive the work that you do and again I I was always trying to avoid the work
but because I was avoiding the work I was never learning. You know kinda what you were talking about, how to find the inspiration you know Yeah And it gets a little bit easier every time once you are actually
are
[00:49:06] Cody: how to love
[00:49:07] Josiah: funny
Yes, exactly. You know?
[00:49:09] Cody: I feel like that is a huge part of it too. 'cause even if you're living by yourself, like if you cleaning up after yourself, you taking care of the things that need to be taken care of, you paying the bills, that's taking care of You
[00:49:18] Josiah: Yep. You.
[00:49:18] Cody: And it is, it's still kind of a bigger thing.
It's helping you exist in the world and, and, and, and be, you know, hopefully a functioning adult somewhat. but then when another person gets introduced in that situation, those priorities change again. And I, that's what I was saying earlier. I would've rather had learned that earlier in life and been more instilled in me.
Which I mean, I mean, my dad never really did anything around the house either. Like he didn't, you know, he would do the things that like. He knew my mom couldn't do, or like the things that like more pertained to him. Very classic five in that way. Like his space, he wanted have it, it was had to be like the, the way that he needed it to be.
Everything in its own place and god forbid anybody ever touch it. And
[00:49:57] Josiah: Um,
[00:49:57] Cody: He knew he knew every single time And I, like, I always say that like stereotypically about dads but I think my dad's also on the spectrum. So
[00:50:05] Josiah: like, I didn't really
[00:50:06] Cody: knew he was like
[00:50:07] Josiah: this
[00:50:08] Cody: Turned
[00:50:09] Josiah: it's like monk just,
[00:50:10] Cody: exactly.
[00:50:12] Josiah: Okay.
So
I think to sum
up if we.
[00:50:16] Cody: If we, if we can If we,
[00:50:18] Josiah: if we can
you can escape the work and if you try it'll come
find you anyway.
[00:50:23] Cody: can. Yeah
[00:50:24] Josiah: There's always
repercussions Yeah Um and so it's about those sets and reps and chopping wood and carrying water and. Learning to love that learning to love it
Not necessarily the the tasks themselves but like what the tasks represent and allow and help you discover about yourself and help you you know, deepen your relationships and connect more I think
[00:50:51] Cody: to, and, and to sum it up for a five that's listening to this
[00:50:55] Josiah: I thought that's what I was doing
[00:50:55] Cody: doing You weren't
[00:50:56] Josiah: You sounded various
[00:50:57] Cody: inspirational You were sounding
[00:51:00] Josiah: very like
well I'm just gonna say this because for
[00:51:04] Cody: all of
[00:51:05] Josiah: was I was gonna unpack more. Cody. Well but I mean just from a different perspective because
[00:51:09] Cody: we think
[00:51:09] Josiah: about things
[00:51:10] Cody: and I feel like
[00:51:11] Josiah: Yeah parts
my brain
[00:51:13] Cody: that are more like, whereas you, I feel like have adapted into different different like shades of your five ness. I feel like I a lot, some of my brain is still more quintessential
[00:51:22] Josiah: For the rest of us
Well, you're self pre I'm social Exactly Yeah And so for all those
[00:51:26] Cody: skeptics out there that are listening that
[00:51:28] Josiah: have the
[00:51:29] Cody: same thought that I I
[00:51:30] Josiah: same thought in
[00:51:31] Cody: life
[00:51:31] Josiah: which is
[00:51:32] Cody: Love things just for the sake of loving
[00:51:35] Josiah: like
blah. blah blah blah Like
[00:51:36] Cody: I will
[00:51:37] Josiah: say this
[00:51:38] Cody: I I, I, I
[00:51:40] Josiah: from this product
[00:51:41] Cody: for so long because I thought I didn't want to learn those things
[00:51:44] Josiah: about myself want to learn
[00:51:46] Cody: think that's worth saying is that I think that I, I was, and maybe I was afraid of what I would learn more about myself or what that would mean, or like, does this mean like I'm gonna suddenly like. People in my life more, You know or
[00:52:00] Josiah: whatever the case is How is that gonna
[00:52:02] Cody: my space?
Everything. It's like you, the, it's the devil, you know? Right? Like you
[00:52:06] Josiah: have your space
[00:52:07] Cody: have your, your things and the, and the thing that you like to do or whatever. And you don't want people encroaching on that. And you're afraid that like, by doing these things and letting other people in that close, that you're willing to try to really love them.
Maybe that's a little bit of a
[00:52:20] Josiah: threat to your
[00:52:23] Cody: And I will just say that I have only been. Surprised in a positive way thus far that, you know, I think it's
[00:52:30] Josiah: That's worth doing
[00:52:31] Cody: because you'll be surprised what you'll find about yourself and in life on the other side of it.
Therapy and Self-Discovery
[00:52:37] Josiah: Yeah a hundred percent And another sort of tangible example of this is. What I went through in
therapy you know after the summer of 23 and I stopped running for my trauma and I went to back to therapy. Yeah And
in that work I realized that I kind of hated myself Mm-hmm
[00:53:02] Cody: Hmm Yeah
[00:53:03] Josiah: and and my therapist
He did a great job of using like internal family systems and also EMDR at the same time which was
cool but in internal family systems recognizing that there are different parts of you right and and different parts
that have
developed at different times to protect you And they've taken on different roles, right And in my example, like that was the work for me It was showing up on a weekly basis and
being very uncomfortable and in pain as I am working
through getting to know each of these parts and it was really painful and really hard but I kept showing up and there was never a big, like huge transformation that happened.
It was subtle shifts over time to where I got to
a point where I was like actually I like myself
you know? And so I was doing that work
and learning to love myself because of the work and in a very real tangible way And that has changed how I view like everything now. ' cause I was making so many decisions To try to stuff down the parts that I didn't like about myself And
by doing that work, I'm now I've not like in integrated them and it makes life, a lot a lot easier in some regards and also um more
[00:54:28] Cody: ways More tolerable
[00:54:29] Josiah: yeah
[00:54:29] Cody: yeah
[00:54:30] Josiah: and more joy Yeah
[00:54:31] Cody: yeah More tolerable.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
[00:54:37] Josiah: Well that was a to
conversation
[00:54:39] Cody: this conversation. I think we really
[00:54:42] Josiah: Um
[00:54:42] Cody: To the Buddhism of it all there at the end.
[00:54:44] Josiah: I hope that everybody gets it I did I it was fun
Though it's taken us like two to
record a 45 minute but they know
that
[00:54:53] Cody: they
[00:54:53] Josiah: they won't have to go through it like
[00:54:55] Cody: we did.
[00:54:56] Josiah: Mini stops
[00:54:57] Cody: and many, many retakes, many
[00:54:58] Josiah: Stop
[00:54:59] Cody: Had to kill a roach. yeah Twice
[00:55:02] Josiah: a lot of hard work
It was,
we had to really
but we kept showing up. We kept showing up kept hitting record
[00:55:09] Cody: over and
[00:55:09] Josiah: again And now you all love us
[00:55:11] Cody: Hopefully
[00:55:13] Josiah: Okay Bye Perfect ​